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	<title>Comments for Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu</link>
	<description>Addressing confusion about physics of disordered materials, and adding to it... ;-)</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 02:55:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by Jose</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-579</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 02:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the quick response! I really appreciate your patience and explanation. I think I get it now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the quick response! I really appreciate your patience and explanation. I think I get it now.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 14:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Jose, thanks for your comment. There are different ways of looking at this, either by considering carrier concentration and its gradient, or in terms of recombination. Both are of course valid and indeed equivalent. 

You are right, polaron pair dissociation is improved by a higher charge carrier mobility (if there is anything to improve), but at some point you have perfect photogeneration and even higher mobility does not make a difference any more. Thus, this is indeed unrelated to the reduction of Voc at high mobilities.

More crucial is the nongeminate recombination, which (as pointed out above) influences the carrier concentration and also its gradient. It is important to understand that the open circuit voltage corresponds to a current free situation, _not_ a field free case. Thus, you certainly can have a finite internal electric field at open circuit. The injection barriers play an important role here. For low injection barriers and thus good injection, the electron injecting contact will determine the carrier concentration at this side (similar for the hole contact): this high concentration is not influenced by recombination! Recombination will of course lower the overall carrier concentration, and due to the boundary condition of injection at the same time the carrier concentration gradients will become steeper. Simultaneously, Voc will be reduced. 

It is important to point out that our 2008 paper considered only Braun-Onsager for photogeneration and Langevin recombination for already free charge carriers. The latter was taken into account even for charge carrier mobilities beyond about 1 cm&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;/Vs, although for high mobilities the finding of charge carriers is not the step limiting the recombination rate any more: Langevin is only valid for low mobility materials. Therefore, check out our 2009 followup paper, also considering surface recombination in addition to bulk recombination: [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/JSTQE.2010.2042142&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wagenpfahl 2009&lt;/a&gt;]. Best,

   Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jose, thanks for your comment. There are different ways of looking at this, either by considering carrier concentration and its gradient, or in terms of recombination. Both are of course valid and indeed equivalent. </p>
<p>You are right, polaron pair dissociation is improved by a higher charge carrier mobility (if there is anything to improve), but at some point you have perfect photogeneration and even higher mobility does not make a difference any more. Thus, this is indeed unrelated to the reduction of Voc at high mobilities.</p>
<p>More crucial is the nongeminate recombination, which (as pointed out above) influences the carrier concentration and also its gradient. It is important to understand that the open circuit voltage corresponds to a current free situation, _not_ a field free case. Thus, you certainly can have a finite internal electric field at open circuit. The injection barriers play an important role here. For low injection barriers and thus good injection, the electron injecting contact will determine the carrier concentration at this side (similar for the hole contact): this high concentration is not influenced by recombination! Recombination will of course lower the overall carrier concentration, and due to the boundary condition of injection at the same time the carrier concentration gradients will become steeper. Simultaneously, Voc will be reduced. </p>
<p>It is important to point out that our 2008 paper considered only Braun-Onsager for photogeneration and Langevin recombination for already free charge carriers. The latter was taken into account even for charge carrier mobilities beyond about 1 cm<sup>2</sup>/Vs, although for high mobilities the finding of charge carriers is not the step limiting the recombination rate any more: Langevin is only valid for low mobility materials. Therefore, check out our 2009 followup paper, also considering surface recombination in addition to bulk recombination: [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/JSTQE.2010.2042142" rel="nofollow">Wagenpfahl 2009</a>]. Best,</p>
<p>   Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by Jose</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-577</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi..  I started reading the blog a few days back and I have learned from it. 

I have a doubt regarding this post. You mention that the Voc decreases with increasing mobility because the concentraion gradient of charge carriers increases. I understand why a more steep concentration gradient would  lead to a lower Voc. What I do not get is why there is a concentration gradient at Voc (no internal electric field)?

This is what I think  about Voc and mobility (after reading some literature):

At low mobilities the probability for polaron pair dissociation is low, so decaying polaron pairs will reduce the quasi-Fermi level splitting. However, a low bimolecular recombination at low mobiliies compensates for this loss, and a high Voc is obtained at low mobilities. As you increase the mobilitiy the polaron pair dissociation process is more efficient, but the bimolecular recombination also increases. The increased bimolecular recombination at high mobility reduces the quasi-Fermi level splitting. Even if the polaron pair dissociation is very efficient at high mobilities, the high bimolecuar recombination outweights it and results in lower quasi-Fermi level splitting and hence a low Voc. Is this correct?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi..  I started reading the blog a few days back and I have learned from it. </p>
<p>I have a doubt regarding this post. You mention that the Voc decreases with increasing mobility because the concentraion gradient of charge carriers increases. I understand why a more steep concentration gradient would  lead to a lower Voc. What I do not get is why there is a concentration gradient at Voc (no internal electric field)?</p>
<p>This is what I think  about Voc and mobility (after reading some literature):</p>
<p>At low mobilities the probability for polaron pair dissociation is low, so decaying polaron pairs will reduce the quasi-Fermi level splitting. However, a low bimolecular recombination at low mobiliies compensates for this loss, and a high Voc is obtained at low mobilities. As you increase the mobilitiy the polaron pair dissociation process is more efficient, but the bimolecular recombination also increases. The increased bimolecular recombination at high mobility reduces the quasi-Fermi level splitting. Even if the polaron pair dissociation is very efficient at high mobilities, the high bimolecuar recombination outweights it and results in lower quasi-Fermi level splitting and hence a low Voc. Is this correct?</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi. Your question is too unspecific, sorry. C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. Your question is too unspecific, sorry. C</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by massimo</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-571</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[massimo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi.
I am new..but it is very interesting.
I have a question, if you can help me.
Do you know a mathematicl model for the energy yield of organic photovoltaic cells???
Many thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi.<br />
I am new..but it is very interesting.<br />
I have a question, if you can help me.<br />
Do you know a mathematicl model for the energy yield of organic photovoltaic cells???<br />
Many thanks</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by arouna</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-568</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[arouna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear DEIBEL,
Just to say thank you very much for this blog. It is very very... useful.
Arouna]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear DEIBEL,<br />
Just to say thank you very much for this blog. It is very very&#8230; useful.<br />
Arouna</p>
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		<title>Comment on Links only by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2012/01/27/links-only/#comment-511</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 20:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=655#comment-511</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Alex! All the best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Alex! All the best, Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Links only by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2012/01/27/links-only/#comment-510</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 20:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=655#comment-510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carsten, about the article highlighting the fact that fundamental understanding is most often not the focus of materials research articles, I completely agree and think that it&#039;s quite sad. I really hope that trend changes at some point soon, but alas that&#039;s likely intimately tied to the funding parasite. 

Thanks for the links, and good luck with your grant applications.

-AA]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carsten, about the article highlighting the fact that fundamental understanding is most often not the focus of materials research articles, I completely agree and think that it&#8217;s quite sad. I really hope that trend changes at some point soon, but alas that&#8217;s likely intimately tied to the funding parasite. </p>
<p>Thanks for the links, and good luck with your grant applications.</p>
<p>-AA</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-499</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-499</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Miriam, thanks for your comment. In the blog post, the derivation of the Langevin equation is shown. In the paper, we expand the original theory somewhat by explaining the prefactor (which we call $latex \zeta$) sometimes necessary to fit experimental polaron dynamics with bimolecular recombination. This prefactor stems in part from spatial gradients of the charge carrier distribution. Thus, if at one end of your device there are many more electrons than holes, the assumption $latex n(x)\approx p(x) \approx \bar{n}$ (where $latex \bar{n}$ is the average carrier concentration which can be determined experimentally) does not work any more. In our paper [&lt;a href=&quot;http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/PhysRevB.80.075203&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Deibel 2010&lt;/a&gt;] we just show how the additional prefactor $latex \zeta$ can be calculated if the gradients are known. Does that answer your question? Best wishes, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Miriam, thanks for your comment. In the blog post, the derivation of the Langevin equation is shown. In the paper, we expand the original theory somewhat by explaining the prefactor (which we call <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Czeta&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;zeta' title='&#92;zeta' class='latex' />) sometimes necessary to fit experimental polaron dynamics with bimolecular recombination. This prefactor stems in part from spatial gradients of the charge carrier distribution. Thus, if at one end of your device there are many more electrons than holes, the assumption <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n%28x%29%5Capprox+p%28x%29+%5Capprox+%5Cbar%7Bn%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n(x)&#92;approx p(x) &#92;approx &#92;bar{n}' title='n(x)&#92;approx p(x) &#92;approx &#92;bar{n}' class='latex' /> (where <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cbar%7Bn%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;bar{n}' title='&#92;bar{n}' class='latex' /> is the average carrier concentration which can be determined experimentally) does not work any more. In our paper [<a href="http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/PhysRevB.80.075203" rel="nofollow">Deibel 2010</a>] we just show how the additional prefactor <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Czeta&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;zeta' title='&#92;zeta' class='latex' /> can be calculated if the gradients are known. Does that answer your question? Best wishes, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by Miriam</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-497</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miriam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-497</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey,
I am just trying to understand your paper (phys. rev. b 82, 2010) and I was wondering how you get the connection between what you explain here in this (really nice) blog and the equation R = (q/e0er) (µn+µp)(np-ni^2) labeled with equ. 6 in your paper.

Cheers and greetings to my home area Lower Franconia ;)
Miriam]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey,<br />
I am just trying to understand your paper (phys. rev. b 82, 2010) and I was wondering how you get the connection between what you explain here in this (really nice) blog and the equation R = (q/e0er) (µn+µp)(np-ni^2) labeled with equ. 6 in your paper.</p>
<p>Cheers and greetings to my home area Lower Franconia <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Miriam</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pseudosymmetry of the photocurrent physically relevant? by OPV</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2012/01/19/pseudosymmetry-of-the-photocurrent-physically-relevant/#comment-476</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OPV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=648#comment-476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks for these inf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for these inf</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Richard, you need to make the product of I and V at the same voltage (or did I misunderstand you? Your example was -Vmpp for the voltage and at 0V (sc) for the current). Thus, if you have an I(V) vs V curve and plot P=I(V)xV vs V, you get only one maximum (actually minimum, a power you can &quot;extract&quot;): at the maximum power point, which is always in the fourth quadrant. Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Richard, you need to make the product of I and V at the same voltage (or did I misunderstand you? Your example was -Vmpp for the voltage and at 0V (sc) for the current). Thus, if you have an I(V) vs V curve and plot P=I(V)xV vs V, you get only one maximum (actually minimum, a power you can &#8220;extract&#8221;): at the maximum power point, which is always in the fourth quadrant. Best, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by Richard</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-461</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Carsten
I&#039;m not sure if this is a stupid question. The maximum power output of a solar cell is always given as the point where the product P=I_mpp V_mpp is maximum in the fouth quadrant. But of course there are also positions in the third quadrant when this product is greater (e.g. at V=-V_mpp,I=-I_sc). What are therefore the secondary (aside from maximizing P) considerations that go into choosing the operating bias for solar cells.
Thanks!
Richard]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carsten<br />
I&#8217;m not sure if this is a stupid question. The maximum power output of a solar cell is always given as the point where the product P=I_mpp V_mpp is maximum in the fouth quadrant. But of course there are also positions in the third quadrant when this product is greater (e.g. at V=-V_mpp,I=-I_sc). What are therefore the secondary (aside from maximizing P) considerations that go into choosing the operating bias for solar cells.<br />
Thanks!<br />
Richard</p>
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		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-460</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I never cared much for solitons, sorry. Have you checked the book by Pope/Swenberg? C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never cared much for solitons, sorry. Have you checked the book by Pope/Swenberg? C</p>
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		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by ashwininmallya</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-459</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ashwininmallya]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-459</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, my question is regarding solitons.Can polyaniline have solitons as charge carriers?Is it correct that only conducting polymers like polyacetylene can have solitons as charge carriers?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, my question is regarding solitons.Can polyaniline have solitons as charge carriers?Is it correct that only conducting polymers like polyacetylene can have solitons as charge carriers?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hot CT complexes and Geminate Recombination by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/05/hot-ct-complexes-and-geminate-recombination/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 12:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=554#comment-457</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(1) In annealed rr-P3HT:PCBM, geminate recombination is neither the nor a &lt;i&gt;dominant&lt;/i&gt; loss mechanism. Experimentally, the photogeneration is almost independent of electric field and temperature (in contrast to e.g. PPV:PCBM). See for instance [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jz200155b&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kniepert 2011&lt;/a&gt;] and [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/ja908046h&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Howard 2010&lt;/a&gt;] (&lt;B&gt;Update 7.2.2012&lt;/B&gt;: should have been this link, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/ja105260d&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Howard 2010&lt;/a&gt;], thanks to Jens for pointing this out). Dominant is nongeminate recombination, as the I(V) reconstruction can be done solely based on bimolecular electron-hole recombination measured by TPV/CE [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1004363107&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Shuttle 2010&lt;/a&gt;].
(2) There is not that much information on radiative vs nonradiative recombination around in literature. Usually recombination of free charge carriers is radiative, nonradiative recombination involves traps. Some information is in [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.125204&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Vandewal 2010&lt;/a&gt;] and [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.83.115209&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kirchartz 2011&lt;/a&gt;].]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(1) In annealed rr-P3HT:PCBM, geminate recombination is neither the nor a <i>dominant</i> loss mechanism. Experimentally, the photogeneration is almost independent of electric field and temperature (in contrast to e.g. PPV:PCBM). See for instance [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jz200155b" rel="nofollow">Kniepert 2011</a>] and [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/ja908046h" rel="nofollow">Howard 2010</a>] (<b>Update 7.2.2012</b>: should have been this link, [<a href="http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/ja105260d" rel="nofollow">Howard 2010</a>], thanks to Jens for pointing this out). Dominant is nongeminate recombination, as the I(V) reconstruction can be done solely based on bimolecular electron-hole recombination measured by TPV/CE [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1004363107" rel="nofollow">Shuttle 2010</a>].<br />
(2) There is not that much information on radiative vs nonradiative recombination around in literature. Usually recombination of free charge carriers is radiative, nonradiative recombination involves traps. Some information is in [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.125204" rel="nofollow">Vandewal 2010</a>] and [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.83.115209" rel="nofollow">Kirchartz 2011</a>].</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hot CT complexes and Geminate Recombination by arc</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/05/hot-ct-complexes-and-geminate-recombination/#comment-456</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[arc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=554#comment-456</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[correction, i meant to say &quot;a dominant loss mechanism&quot; not &quot;the dominant loss mechanism&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>correction, i meant to say &#8220;a dominant loss mechanism&#8221; not &#8220;the dominant loss mechanism&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Hot CT complexes and Geminate Recombination by arc</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/05/hot-ct-complexes-and-geminate-recombination/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[arc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2011 22:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=554#comment-455</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m having the hardest time with something.

(1) In polymer (P3HT) : PCBM devices, the geminate recombination of the CT state is the dominant loss mechanism, correct?

(2) Is that recombination radiative or non-radiative? Nobody seems to talk about the possibility of it being non-radiative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m having the hardest time with something.</p>
<p>(1) In polymer (P3HT) : PCBM devices, the geminate recombination of the CT state is the dominant loss mechanism, correct?</p>
<p>(2) Is that recombination radiative or non-radiative? Nobody seems to talk about the possibility of it being non-radiative.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by Linda</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you very much! Carsten. you are so kind!
Best wishes, Linda]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much! Carsten. you are so kind!<br />
Best wishes, Linda</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Linda, 

transient photovoltage is on an illuminated (with, say, 1 sun) solar cell under steady state conditions. You set the voltage to the open circuit voltage Voc, current=0. An additional laser pulse will change Voc by a small amount dVoc. Make sure that the laser pulse is small enough so that dVoc &lt;&lt; Voc (say, 5%, but depends). The excess charge carriers will recombine until the steady state Voc is reached again. As dVoc is small, the decay is exponential, with an effective lifetime tau which is valid for the illumination intensity, here 1 sun. If you do this experiment for different illumination intensities (corresponding to generation rate G), you get a set of effective lifetimes tau(G). Second step: transient photocurrent or charge extraction experiment to determine the carrier concentration n at Voc for the different G, so that you get n(G). Thus, you now have two sets which you can combine, tau(n(G)), thus tau(n). This corresponds to a recombination rate R=n/tau(n), which is usually not a first order process as tau is not a constant with increasing n. If you compare to the recombination rate written in other terms, $latex R(n)=k n^{\lambda+1}$, you can find $latex \lambda$ from your above measurement. 

The order of decay $latex \lambda+1$ is a function of temperature. A very good starting point to read about this is [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/adfm.200901734&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Shuttle 2010&lt;/a&gt;]. The authors find that at room temperature, $R(n)=k n^{\lambda+1}\propto \mu(n) n^2$, thus 2nd order bimolecular recombination with a concentration dependent mobility responsible for increasing the recombination order above the expected value of two. However, we think the results need to be generalised if you look at lower temperatures, but that is a bit more complicated. For a first glimpse, you could have a look at these slides of ours, &lt;a href=&quot;http://organext.org//userfiles/talks-conference/carsten_deibel.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Deibel 2011 nanopv presentation&lt;/a&gt;, especially slides 15-18.

Regards, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Linda, </p>
<p>transient photovoltage is on an illuminated (with, say, 1 sun) solar cell under steady state conditions. You set the voltage to the open circuit voltage Voc, current=0. An additional laser pulse will change Voc by a small amount dVoc. Make sure that the laser pulse is small enough so that dVoc &lt;&lt; Voc (say, 5%, but depends). The excess charge carriers will recombine until the steady state Voc is reached again. As dVoc is small, the decay is exponential, with an effective lifetime tau which is valid for the illumination intensity, here 1 sun. If you do this experiment for different illumination intensities (corresponding to generation rate G), you get a set of effective lifetimes tau(G). Second step: transient photocurrent or charge extraction experiment to determine the carrier concentration n at Voc for the different G, so that you get n(G). Thus, you now have two sets which you can combine, tau(n(G)), thus tau(n). This corresponds to a recombination rate R=n/tau(n), which is usually not a first order process as tau is not a constant with increasing n. If you compare to the recombination rate written in other terms, <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=R%28n%29%3Dk+n%5E%7B%5Clambda%2B1%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='R(n)=k n^{&#92;lambda+1}' title='R(n)=k n^{&#92;lambda+1}' class='latex' />, you can find <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Clambda&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;lambda' title='&#92;lambda' class='latex' /> from your above measurement. </p>
<p>The order of decay <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Clambda%2B1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;lambda+1' title='&#92;lambda+1' class='latex' /> is a function of temperature. A very good starting point to read about this is [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/adfm.200901734" rel="nofollow">Shuttle 2010</a>]. The authors find that at room temperature, $R(n)=k n^{\lambda+1}\propto \mu(n) n^2$, thus 2nd order bimolecular recombination with a concentration dependent mobility responsible for increasing the recombination order above the expected value of two. However, we think the results need to be generalised if you look at lower temperatures, but that is a bit more complicated. For a first glimpse, you could have a look at these slides of ours, <a href="http://organext.org//userfiles/talks-conference/carsten_deibel.pdf" rel="nofollow">Deibel 2011 nanopv presentation</a>, especially slides 15-18.</p>
<p>Regards, Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by Linda</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 16:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi,Carsten,i&#039;m Linda, i asked you a question ten days ago,  i didn&#039;t realized that you could give me such a quick response, that&#039;s a surprise, thank you very much! Now i have another question, some publications said they can illustrate the recombination mechanism by transient photocurrent and photovoltage measurement. Although I have read some papers about this, i just cannot clearly understand the principle of this experiment. Does the transient photocurrent and photovoltage measurement can get two kinds of  information such as charge transport and recombination? How can i understand this measurement in a simple way? 
I also have read one of your papers about the recombination dynamics (Influence of phase segregation on the recombination dynamics in organic bulk heterojunction solar cells), you mentioned that charge carrier decay order is as a function of temperature, i don&#039;t understand the reason for this. Is it necessary to do the measurement at different temperatures? Thank you very much!

Best wishes, Linda]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,Carsten,i&#8217;m Linda, i asked you a question ten days ago,  i didn&#8217;t realized that you could give me such a quick response, that&#8217;s a surprise, thank you very much! Now i have another question, some publications said they can illustrate the recombination mechanism by transient photocurrent and photovoltage measurement. Although I have read some papers about this, i just cannot clearly understand the principle of this experiment. Does the transient photocurrent and photovoltage measurement can get two kinds of  information such as charge transport and recombination? How can i understand this measurement in a simple way?<br />
I also have read one of your papers about the recombination dynamics (Influence of phase segregation on the recombination dynamics in organic bulk heterojunction solar cells), you mentioned that charge carrier decay order is as a function of temperature, i don&#8217;t understand the reason for this. Is it necessary to do the measurement at different temperatures? Thank you very much!</p>
<p>Best wishes, Linda</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are welcome to use them, Linda. Cheers, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are welcome to use them, Linda. Cheers, Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by Linda</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-449</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carsten,i beneift a lot form your bolg,thank you very much!I like those pictures in this topic,i want to know if i can use them in my presentation?of course i&#039;ll indicate the copyright. Linda]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carsten,i beneift a lot form your bolg,thank you very much!I like those pictures in this topic,i want to know if i can use them in my presentation?of course i&#8217;ll indicate the copyright. Linda</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree on the role of morphology. Meeting sounds good. Will you be at MRS Fall this year (I&#039;ll be there), or MRS Spring next year (I&#039;ll be there if the talk is accepted)? And meeting up in Spain always sounds good:-) Best, C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree on the role of morphology. Meeting sounds good. Will you be at MRS Fall this year (I&#8217;ll be there), or MRS Spring next year (I&#8217;ll be there if the talk is accepted)? And meeting up in Spain always sounds good:-) Best, C</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by aziel6al</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aziel6al]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jejejeje, indeed!. We are now working on solution processed small molecule solar cells and applying some of your models and techniques to our IV curves as well as applying our CE and TPV. It seems that is very likely that different materials that lead to different morphologies have very much different recombination kinetics. The ones which make crystalline domains seems to be controlled by non-geminative recombination dynamics ( bi-molecular) . Yet, for some of the &quot;amorphous&quot; films we cannot discard the role of geminate recombination.
Let&#039;s see if we can get together at some conference to discuss it. Perhaps you could come over for a conference here if you are not busy early next year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jejejeje, indeed!. We are now working on solution processed small molecule solar cells and applying some of your models and techniques to our IV curves as well as applying our CE and TPV. It seems that is very likely that different materials that lead to different morphologies have very much different recombination kinetics. The ones which make crystalline domains seems to be controlled by non-geminative recombination dynamics ( bi-molecular) . Yet, for some of the &#8220;amorphous&#8221; films we cannot discard the role of geminate recombination.<br />
Let&#8217;s see if we can get together at some conference to discuss it. Perhaps you could come over for a conference here if you are not busy early next year.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-446</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Emilio! I was on paternity leave in March and September (not &quot;between&quot; unfortunately;-), so back to work already for 6 weeks or so. You are very right, however, there is much more to life (in the true sense of the word) than OPV ;-) Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Emilio! I was on paternity leave in March and September (not &#8220;between&#8221; unfortunately;-), so back to work already for 6 weeks or so. You are very right, however, there is much more to life (in the true sense of the word) than OPV <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Best, Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by aziel6al</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aziel6al]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Carsten, If I understood well you are &quot;on vacations&quot; because you being a father again. Am I right? If so, congratulations. Not everything is a bout OPV....:-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carsten, If I understood well you are &#8220;on vacations&#8221; because you being a father again. Am I right? If so, congratulations. Not everything is a bout OPV&#8230;.:-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by OPV</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-439</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OPV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ok,thank&#039;s.Best]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok,thank&#8217;s.Best</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Khadidha, I would go for less than one nm for now, irrespective of the potentially higher calculation time. Later on, once your simulation is established, you can try an adaptive grid. Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Khadidha, I would go for less than one nm for now, irrespective of the potentially higher calculation time. Later on, once your simulation is established, you can try an adaptive grid. Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Linda, proper naming of the recombination mechanisms is not quite consistent in literature - and unfortunately also not consistent in my blog. Make sure to read the more recent posts, such as &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt; for definitions. Best is probably to use the term nongeminate recombination for the annihilation of free electrons and holes with one another. In the cited blog post above I call this bimolecular recombination, with a recombination order of usually two if electrons and holes have similar concentrations. However, for trap-assisted recombination (e.g. comparable to Shockley-Read-Hall) the recombination order can also become one - which I called monomolecular in the old post. Also, recombination orders higher than two (eg. three, which I called trimolecular back then) where reported. Cheers, Carsetn]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Linda, proper naming of the recombination mechanisms is not quite consistent in literature &#8211; and unfortunately also not consistent in my blog. Make sure to read the more recent posts, such as <a href="http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/" rel="nofollow">this one</a> for definitions. Best is probably to use the term nongeminate recombination for the annihilation of free electrons and holes with one another. In the cited blog post above I call this bimolecular recombination, with a recombination order of usually two if electrons and holes have similar concentrations. However, for trap-assisted recombination (e.g. comparable to Shockley-Read-Hall) the recombination order can also become one &#8211; which I called monomolecular in the old post. Also, recombination orders higher than two (eg. three, which I called trimolecular back then) where reported. Cheers, Carsetn</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by OPV</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OPV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Carsten :),please I would asking you for grid spacing (mesh size) of MIM stucture,one must choose it smaller than debye length?when I have done calculation I have got a mesh size larger than intrinsic debye length :(!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carsten <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ,please I would asking you for grid spacing (mesh size) of MIM stucture,one must choose it smaller than debye length?when I have done calculation I have got a mesh size larger than intrinsic debye length <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> !!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by Linda</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-432</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 18:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Carsten, thank you and your blog,that&#039;s very very useful!
I started to do dynamics 5 months ago, i&#039;ve got a question. You said &quot;In a few view days, there are another publication about recombination of free polaron (free carriers)---also called nongeminate bicombination, more specificially, trimolecular recombination&quot;, and today you wrote &quot;Recombination of a free, mobile electron with a trapped hole can be an example for nongeminate recombination which is monomolecular. &quot; I&#039;m so confused! Is nongeminate recombination a monomolecular or trimolecular? Or there are other similar recombination mechanism we can call it nongeminat recombination? thank you very much!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Carsten, thank you and your blog,that&#8217;s very very useful!<br />
I started to do dynamics 5 months ago, i&#8217;ve got a question. You said &#8220;In a few view days, there are another publication about recombination of free polaron (free carriers)&#8212;also called nongeminate bicombination, more specificially, trimolecular recombination&#8221;, and today you wrote &#8220;Recombination of a free, mobile electron with a trapped hole can be an example for nongeminate recombination which is monomolecular. &#8221; I&#8217;m so confused! Is nongeminate recombination a monomolecular or trimolecular? Or there are other similar recombination mechanism we can call it nongeminat recombination? thank you very much!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Influence of Finite Surface Recombination Velocity on Efficiency vs. Mobility of Polymer Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/08/26/influence-of-finite-surface-on-efficiency-vs-mobility-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2011 07:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=346#comment-427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Austin, thanks. You can get s-shapes by several ways, i.e. less conductive interface layers, an energetic extraction barrier, or imbalanced electron-hole mobilities. They all lead to space charges, which are most pronounced close to the electrodes. Anode or cathode does not make a difference. Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Austin, thanks. You can get s-shapes by several ways, i.e. less conductive interface layers, an energetic extraction barrier, or imbalanced electron-hole mobilities. They all lead to space charges, which are most pronounced close to the electrodes. Anode or cathode does not make a difference. Best, Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Influence of Finite Surface Recombination Velocity on Efficiency vs. Mobility of Polymer Solar Cells by texcapprezjimmy</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/08/26/influence-of-finite-surface-on-efficiency-vs-mobility-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-425</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[texcapprezjimmy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2011 03:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=346#comment-425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great blog. Thanks for all of the effort.

Question about your article Phys Rev B 82 (2010) on the S-shaped current-voltage. You simulate and reproduce the S-shaped curves very nicely by modeling the anode (hole collector, ITO). But, is there any reason why similar results could be obtained for modification of the cathode (electron collector)? For instance, a degraded Aluminum layer or an insulating interfacial layer that is too thick?

I sometimes generate similar S-curves and have been trying to pin-down culprit.

Thanks for your time,
Austin]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great blog. Thanks for all of the effort.</p>
<p>Question about your article Phys Rev B 82 (2010) on the S-shaped current-voltage. You simulate and reproduce the S-shaped curves very nicely by modeling the anode (hole collector, ITO). But, is there any reason why similar results could be obtained for modification of the cathode (electron collector)? For instance, a degraded Aluminum layer or an insulating interfacial layer that is too thick?</p>
<p>I sometimes generate similar S-curves and have been trying to pin-down culprit.</p>
<p>Thanks for your time,<br />
Austin</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-418</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2011 08:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unfortunately not, but I recommend you have a look at the book by Pope and Swenberg (1999) for background - or use google translate on Langevin&#039;s original paper;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately not, but I recommend you have a look at the book by Pope and Swenberg (1999) for background &#8211; or use google translate on Langevin&#8217;s original paper;-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by Jiebing</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-417</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jiebing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-417</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you very much for your clear explanation. 

BTW, do you happen to have an English version of the paper Langevin 1903 (Ann. Chim. Phys. 28, 433)? I want to read the original paper. Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much for your clear explanation. </p>
<p>BTW, do you happen to have an English version of the paper Langevin 1903 (Ann. Chim. Phys. 28, 433)? I want to read the original paper. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[$latex n_i$ is the intrinsic carrier concentration. The contribution proportional to $latex -n_i^2$ is opposing recombination and is thus a generation term, not a second generation path. Essentially, you can interpret it as the charge carrier densities $latex n$ and $latex p$ never being lower than $latex n_i$. Once $latex np=n_i^2$, there is no more Langevin recombination. This corresponds to the mass action law you find in semiconductor text books. The Langevin recombination equations works for an ensemble of charge carriers, thus is &quot;on average&quot;, so there is no need (and no way) that a charge carrier can &quot;choose&quot; its recombination partner. Regards, C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n_i&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n_i' title='n_i' class='latex' /> is the intrinsic carrier concentration. The contribution proportional to <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=-n_i%5E2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='-n_i^2' title='-n_i^2' class='latex' /> is opposing recombination and is thus a generation term, not a second generation path. Essentially, you can interpret it as the charge carrier densities <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n' title='n' class='latex' /> and <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=p&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='p' title='p' class='latex' /> never being lower than <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n_i&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n_i' title='n_i' class='latex' />. Once <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=np%3Dn_i%5E2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='np=n_i^2' title='np=n_i^2' class='latex' />, there is no more Langevin recombination. This corresponds to the mass action law you find in semiconductor text books. The Langevin recombination equations works for an ensemble of charge carriers, thus is &#8220;on average&#8221;, so there is no need (and no way) that a charge carrier can &#8220;choose&#8221; its recombination partner. Regards, C</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by Jiebing</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jiebing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 15:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your useful post. Can you explain the second term n_i^2 in R_Langevin = \gamma *(np-n_i^2)? 

I was thinking some holes may have multiple choices (path) to choose which electron to &quot;marry&quot; to, which causes overestimate of the current. Do this term account for this or for other reasons? Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your useful post. Can you explain the second term n_i^2 in R_Langevin = \gamma *(np-n_i^2)? </p>
<p>I was thinking some holes may have multiple choices (path) to choose which electron to &#8220;marry&#8221; to, which causes overestimate of the current. Do this term account for this or for other reasons? Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by OPV</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OPV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks Carsten,i have done the implementation but i had error in calcul,for this reason i would just ensure what i&#039;m doing.
thank&#039;s a lot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks Carsten,i have done the implementation but i had error in calcul,for this reason i would just ensure what i&#8217;m doing.<br />
thank&#8217;s a lot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Khadidja, I do not see that there is a problem: the organic BHJ as an effective medium is just an ambipolar device, otherwise with the same equations being valid. Also, as sorry as I am, but the implementation is your job;-) If you have questions concerning the physics, come back here. Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Khadidja, I do not see that there is a problem: the organic BHJ as an effective medium is just an ambipolar device, otherwise with the same equations being valid. Also, as sorry as I am, but the implementation is your job;-) If you have questions concerning the physics, come back here. Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by OPV</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OPV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Mr.Carstern.How are you?
I have a problem when calculating the initiale value of elctrostatic potential in BHJ OPV!! in conventional solar cell we have 2 regions and the doping profil,so we can initialize electrical potential using condition of charge neutrality. in case of OPV we have intrinsic blended D/A heterojunction.can you help me to get the formula of potential inorder to use it as initial value?
Best.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mr.Carstern.How are you?<br />
I have a problem when calculating the initiale value of elctrostatic potential in BHJ OPV!! in conventional solar cell we have 2 regions and the doping profil,so we can initialize electrical potential using condition of charge neutrality. in case of OPV we have intrinsic blended D/A heterojunction.can you help me to get the formula of potential inorder to use it as initial value?<br />
Best.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by khadidja</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-401</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[khadidja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[many thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>many thanks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-400</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 14:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The effective medium approach, donor:acceptor blend as &quot;one new material&quot;, works quite well for many phenomena. Energetic disorder and hopping are well represented by the mobility model (e.g. the Bässler model for a start). C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The effective medium approach, donor:acceptor blend as &#8220;one new material&#8221;, works quite well for many phenomena. Energetic disorder and hopping are well represented by the mobility model (e.g. the Bässler model for a start). C</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by khadidja</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[khadidja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 14:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I apologize for my questions wich seem to you so trivial:
sir i have another question concerning the model:
does this model can represent the real behavior of organic solar cell,because in this latter we have the disorder,intern morphology (phase separation),the hopping...
I hope that my questions don&#039;t cause incovenience for you]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize for my questions wich seem to you so trivial:<br />
sir i have another question concerning the model:<br />
does this model can represent the real behavior of organic solar cell,because in this latter we have the disorder,intern morphology (phase separation),the hopping&#8230;<br />
I hope that my questions don&#8217;t cause incovenience for you</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 11:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That is what I was saying, yes. C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is what I was saying, yes. C</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by khadidja</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-397</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[khadidja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[concerning my last question i would say: we have not appear the dissociation of polarons in the novel approach ! 
i have the question if I-V characteristic based in this model (neglect od braun onsager) is in a good agreement with experimental characteristics?
Best.Khadidja]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>concerning my last question i would say: we have not appear the dissociation of polarons in the novel approach !<br />
i have the question if I-V characteristic based in this model (neglect od braun onsager) is in a good agreement with experimental characteristics?<br />
Best.Khadidja</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2011 15:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, 

the Koster model is fine, , only the application of the Braun-Onsager part was criticised for the use of polaron pair (geminate) lifetimes on the microsecond instead of the experimentally measured nanosecond scale. Alternatively, you can have a look at [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.80.075203&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Deibel 2009&lt;/a&gt;] and references therein. 

Geminate recombination and why it is almost field independent in the fourth I-V quadrant of most solar cells: see &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/05/hot-ct-complexes-and-geminate-recombination/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;previous blogpost on geminate recombination&lt;/a&gt; and [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jz200155b&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kniepert 2011 &lt;/a&gt;]. Thus, indeed, you can neglect Braun-Onsager for getting started.

Nongeminate recombination and why the Langevin prefactor is reduced, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;previous blogpost on nongeminate recombination&lt;/a&gt;, or [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.80.075203&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Deibel 2009&lt;/a&gt;] or for an overview my &lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/0034-4885/73/9/096401&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;review&lt;/a&gt;.

  Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, </p>
<p>the Koster model is fine, , only the application of the Braun-Onsager part was criticised for the use of polaron pair (geminate) lifetimes on the microsecond instead of the experimentally measured nanosecond scale. Alternatively, you can have a look at [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.80.075203" rel="nofollow">Deibel 2009</a>] and references therein. </p>
<p>Geminate recombination and why it is almost field independent in the fourth I-V quadrant of most solar cells: see <a href="http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/05/hot-ct-complexes-and-geminate-recombination/" rel="nofollow">previous blogpost on geminate recombination</a> and [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jz200155b" rel="nofollow">Kniepert 2011 </a>]. Thus, indeed, you can neglect Braun-Onsager for getting started.</p>
<p>Nongeminate recombination and why the Langevin prefactor is reduced, see <a href="http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/" rel="nofollow">previous blogpost on nongeminate recombination</a>, or [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.80.075203" rel="nofollow">Deibel 2009</a>] or for an overview my <a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/0034-4885/73/9/096401" rel="nofollow">review</a>.</p>
<p>  Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by khadidja</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[khadidja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 19:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Mr.Carsten; thank you very much for your answer,it&#039;s very kind of you.
so I&#039;m inorder to develop code calcul to solve the differential equation system of the Poisson, continuity and drift–diffusion equations by an iterative approach described by Gummel and Scharfetter (i model koster-Blom&#039;s model). could we say that is it the appropriate model to mdel the BHJ organic solar cells?
I have seen your publication (jun 2008), you have introduced a novel prefactor in langevin recombination rate,why?
According to your explanation i understand that i have to calculate dissociation probability without the radius distribution integral, after i do that i.e i do the sum from 0 to rpp (separation length) of P(rpp,T,F) product f(x,rpp) inorder to do the comparision?

You said that &quot;I’d start without Braun-Onsager and concentrate on nongeminate recombination.&quot;  did you mean that geminate recombination play a minor role? and the net generation rate is as following: U=G-R  ? please sir if you have a buplication speaking about that ,could you let me know??

I apologize for the inconvenience,olso excuse me for my poor english ;)
with my thaks advance]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mr.Carsten; thank you very much for your answer,it&#8217;s very kind of you.<br />
so I&#8217;m inorder to develop code calcul to solve the differential equation system of the Poisson, continuity and drift–diffusion equations by an iterative approach described by Gummel and Scharfetter (i model koster-Blom&#8217;s model). could we say that is it the appropriate model to mdel the BHJ organic solar cells?<br />
I have seen your publication (jun 2008), you have introduced a novel prefactor in langevin recombination rate,why?<br />
According to your explanation i understand that i have to calculate dissociation probability without the radius distribution integral, after i do that i.e i do the sum from 0 to rpp (separation length) of P(rpp,T,F) product f(x,rpp) inorder to do the comparision?</p>
<p>You said that &#8220;I’d start without Braun-Onsager and concentrate on nongeminate recombination.&#8221;  did you mean that geminate recombination play a minor role? and the net generation rate is as following: U=G-R  ? please sir if you have a buplication speaking about that ,could you let me know??</p>
<p>I apologize for the inconvenience,olso excuse me for my poor english <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
with my thaks advance</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 06:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi khadidja. First off, keep in mind that polaron pair dissociation is not critical in state-of-the-art solar cells: you could first model without that influence. Second, the extension to use a distribution of pair radii comes from the Blom group. While in principle a good idea, no experimental values for the radius, let alone the distribution are known: these are fitting parameters -- and more fitting parameters give a better fit. Concerning the length of the formula, it is not that hard without the radius distribution integral, try it without: once working, you can extend it, and you have your first results without distribution as reference values for verification. Nevertheless, I&#039;d start without Braun-Onsager and concentrate on nongeminate recombination. Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi khadidja. First off, keep in mind that polaron pair dissociation is not critical in state-of-the-art solar cells: you could first model without that influence. Second, the extension to use a distribution of pair radii comes from the Blom group. While in principle a good idea, no experimental values for the radius, let alone the distribution are known: these are fitting parameters &#8212; and more fitting parameters give a better fit. Concerning the length of the formula, it is not that hard without the radius distribution integral, try it without: once working, you can extend it, and you have your first results without distribution as reference values for verification. Nevertheless, I&#8217;d start without Braun-Onsager and concentrate on nongeminate recombination. Best, Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by khadidja</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[khadidja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2011 18:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear doctor Deibel;
I’m so happy to see you and i congratulate you for your research on organic solar cells
Let me introduce my self,my name is khadidja,i’m algerian and i’m student.
I hope that you could answer me.
currently I am preparing my master thesis,i’m working in modeling of organic solar cells using matlab,i have some difficulties in order to calculte the dissociation probability of electron hole pair using matlab,the formula of integration the probability is very long and depends on many variables,like the elctric field wish is introduced in the formula of b ,knowing that the electric field is descritized using finite difference method, do you see? also we have to integrate the probability over all charge-separation
distances (we have infinit integral),could you tell me at wish value we born the integral? could we using the initial separation distance??
please sir ,I need your help.

yours sincerly]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear doctor Deibel;<br />
I’m so happy to see you and i congratulate you for your research on organic solar cells<br />
Let me introduce my self,my name is khadidja,i’m algerian and i’m student.<br />
I hope that you could answer me.<br />
currently I am preparing my master thesis,i’m working in modeling of organic solar cells using matlab,i have some difficulties in order to calculte the dissociation probability of electron hole pair using matlab,the formula of integration the probability is very long and depends on many variables,like the elctric field wish is introduced in the formula of b ,knowing that the electric field is descritized using finite difference method, do you see? also we have to integrate the probability over all charge-separation<br />
distances (we have infinit integral),could you tell me at wish value we born the integral? could we using the initial separation distance??<br />
please sir ,I need your help.</p>
<p>yours sincerly</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on SPIE Pickings by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/10/17/spie-pickings/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=617#comment-382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My pleasure! Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My pleasure! Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on SPIE Pickings by armismelas</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/10/17/spie-pickings/#comment-381</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armismelas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=617#comment-381</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the links

I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the links</p>
<p>I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on 1955-2011 by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/10/06/1955-2011/#comment-375</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2011 15:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=615#comment-375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The world become a little less.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world become a little less.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by nissy nevil</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-374</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nissy nevil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Carsten!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Carsten!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-372</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 17:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Nissy, thank you. There is not much in literature for organics, as far as I know. The method is simple enough and described in the literature for inorganics under the name open circuit voltage decay: hold your device at zero current, laser pulse, measure the resulting Voc vs time. One paper for dye cells is [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/cphc.200200615&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Zaban 2003&lt;/a&gt;] and I believe the coauthor Juan Bisquert has also done these experiments on organic solar cells. Regards, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Nissy, thank you. There is not much in literature for organics, as far as I know. The method is simple enough and described in the literature for inorganics under the name open circuit voltage decay: hold your device at zero current, laser pulse, measure the resulting Voc vs time. One paper for dye cells is [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/cphc.200200615" rel="nofollow">Zaban 2003</a>] and I believe the coauthor Juan Bisquert has also done these experiments on organic solar cells. Regards, Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent again by nissynevil</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/09/07/photocurrent-again/#comment-370</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nissynevil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=611#comment-370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Carsten

Where can I find more information on the large-signal method at open circuit?

Thank you
Regards
Nissy]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Carsten</p>
<p>Where can I find more information on the large-signal method at open circuit?</p>
<p>Thank you<br />
Regards<br />
Nissy</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by Photocurrent again &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Photocurrent again &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 15:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] covered the photocurrent already before, for instance here.  I pointed out that from the light intensity dependence of the short circuit current, it is [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] covered the photocurrent already before, for instance here.  I pointed out that from the light intensity dependence of the short circuit current, it is [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-358</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2011 07:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am sorry, there is nothing more to it than written in the post. The particle is free once it does not feel the Coulomb attraction to the other particle any more, which is the case when thermal energy = coulomb energy. That equation is then rearranged to give the Coulomb radius, as described.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sorry, there is nothing more to it than written in the post. The particle is free once it does not feel the Coulomb attraction to the other particle any more, which is the case when thermal energy = coulomb energy. That equation is then rearranged to give the Coulomb radius, as described.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by Carlos Augusto</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carlos Augusto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 14:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I jsut didn&#039;t understand what is the Coulomb radius. Can you explain me? 

.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I jsut didn&#8217;t understand what is the Coulomb radius. Can you explain me? </p>
<p>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by Células Solares Orgánicas &#171; Meditaciones Dactilares</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Células Solares Orgánicas &#171; Meditaciones Dactilares]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] es la &#8220;blend&#8221; (o tener los dos tipos de polímero mezclados entre si(. En el siguiente enlace está muy bien explicado la formación y la disociación de estos [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] es la &#8220;blend&#8221; (o tener los dos tipos de polímero mezclados entre si(. En el siguiente enlace está muy bien explicado la formación y la disociación de estos [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 15:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your question is not clear to me, sorry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your question is not clear to me, sorry.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by bin</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 15:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Dr. Deibel , thanks a lot for your post. I am a graduate student, have a question about polarons. Does polaron or polaron pairs  have the temperature dependence？]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Dr. Deibel , thanks a lot for your post. I am a graduate student, have a question about polarons. Does polaron or polaron pairs  have the temperature dependence？</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-350</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2011 09:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Eigen,

thanks; Carsten (without any title) will do;-) You are right: geminate recombination describes a recombination in which the recombination partners come from the same precurcor state. Consequently: nongeminate recombination, different precursors. The former is for instance recombination of a singlet exciton or a charge transfer exciton, which is first order recombination usually on a time scale of below 1 to 10ns. Nongeminate recombination implies that first two different precursors states need to dissociate to generate free species which then find one other to recombine. Sounds more complicated, also takes longer: usually more than 1 to 10ns, and usually 2nd (or higher) order recombination. I belive this is also explained in my review, in which you might find useful references as well. Best,

  Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Eigen,</p>
<p>thanks; Carsten (without any title) will do;-) You are right: geminate recombination describes a recombination in which the recombination partners come from the same precurcor state. Consequently: nongeminate recombination, different precursors. The former is for instance recombination of a singlet exciton or a charge transfer exciton, which is first order recombination usually on a time scale of below 1 to 10ns. Nongeminate recombination implies that first two different precursors states need to dissociate to generate free species which then find one other to recombine. Sounds more complicated, also takes longer: usually more than 1 to 10ns, and usually 2nd (or higher) order recombination. I belive this is also explained in my review, in which you might find useful references as well. Best,</p>
<p>  Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by eigen</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eigen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2011 20:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Mr Carsten,

Your blog is quite helpful! However, I still have a silly question on geminate recombination and nongeminate recombination. What is the difference between the two indeed? I hear that the former involves electron and hole polarons originally from the same exciton while the latter from two different excitons. Is it correct? I am also wondering how you can experimentally recognize these two recombination mechanisms? I read some papers on that but didn&#039;t have a clue. Thanks very much~!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mr Carsten,</p>
<p>Your blog is quite helpful! However, I still have a silly question on geminate recombination and nongeminate recombination. What is the difference between the two indeed? I hear that the former involves electron and hole polarons originally from the same exciton while the latter from two different excitons. Is it correct? I am also wondering how you can experimentally recognize these two recombination mechanisms? I read some papers on that but didn&#8217;t have a clue. Thanks very much~!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by Katie</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-348</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thankyou Mr. Carsten :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankyou Mr. Carsten <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Comments by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/02/06/comments/#comment-347</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=593#comment-347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Joydeep, answering questions on C-V takes more time than I have;-) Low frequency is a good idea in any case. Concerning Mott-Schottky evaluation, the prerequisites are quite different as compared to a bulk heterojunction solar cell. From our group, some thoughts on the determination of the quasi flatband voltage (not built-in potential!) are in [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.085203&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Limpinsel 2010&lt;/a&gt;], including experiment and simulations. Interesting to you may be [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.100.086802&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;von Mensfoort 2008&lt;/a&gt;]. Concerning doping determination by Mott-Schottky evaluation, I personally do not trust it. Thus, the question is: what information do you want to get, and which technique is (better) suited for the task. Good luck, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Joydeep, answering questions on C-V takes more time than I have;-) Low frequency is a good idea in any case. Concerning Mott-Schottky evaluation, the prerequisites are quite different as compared to a bulk heterojunction solar cell. From our group, some thoughts on the determination of the quasi flatband voltage (not built-in potential!) are in [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.085203" rel="nofollow">Limpinsel 2010</a>], including experiment and simulations. Interesting to you may be [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.100.086802" rel="nofollow">von Mensfoort 2008</a>]. Concerning doping determination by Mott-Schottky evaluation, I personally do not trust it. Thus, the question is: what information do you want to get, and which technique is (better) suited for the task. Good luck, Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Comments by Joydeep Bhattacharya</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/02/06/comments/#comment-346</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joydeep Bhattacharya]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=593#comment-346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Sir 

 i am graduate student and new to this field. It would be great if you could find some time for giving an insight into the capacitance vs Voltage behavior of Organic bulk Hetero junction Solar Cell eg. P3HT:PCBM). I have a low frequency CV data ( @ 100Hz) from -1.0 Volt to +0.5 volt. But I am confused how to interpret it. How to calculate Built In potential and total defect states in P3HT. what is the physics behind it. Is there any concept of Depletion width in Bulk hetero junction? How can we get a complete picture of Built in voltage and depletion width in organic bulk hetero junction. 

Waiting for your response. 

Thanks 

Joydeep]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Sir </p>
<p> i am graduate student and new to this field. It would be great if you could find some time for giving an insight into the capacitance vs Voltage behavior of Organic bulk Hetero junction Solar Cell eg. P3HT:PCBM). I have a low frequency CV data ( @ 100Hz) from -1.0 Volt to +0.5 volt. But I am confused how to interpret it. How to calculate Built In potential and total defect states in P3HT. what is the physics behind it. Is there any concept of Depletion width in Bulk hetero junction? How can we get a complete picture of Built in voltage and depletion width in organic bulk hetero junction. </p>
<p>Waiting for your response. </p>
<p>Thanks </p>
<p>Joydeep</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-345</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 21:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Katie, thanks:) Energy levels are not an easy topic, there is a lot of controversy already in the naming. Essentially what can be measured are only the charged molecular orbitals. The most reliable method is photoemission spectroscopy. For application on organic semiconductors, see [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.085202&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Deibel 2010&lt;/a&gt;] and [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.orgel.2010.07.023&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Guan 2010&lt;/a&gt;]. The latter is on a blend and thus more relevant to your question. Nevertheless, photoemission spectroscopy is about energy levels occupied with single particles, electrons OR holes. Cyclovoltammetry measures the same levels but is less reliable. 

However, you are probably more interested in finding the maximum of the open circuit voltage. Here, you could determine Voc(T) and extrapolate to 0K, as done in [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.125204&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Vandewal 2010&lt;/a&gt;] or [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.3566979&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rauh 2011&lt;/a&gt;]. This measurement determines the effective bandgap which goes into the equation for the open circuit voltage [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.77.165332&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cheyns 2008&lt;/a&gt;]. This equation and the measurements given are directly about the effective bandgap. The actual HOMO(A)-LUMO(D) gap, as determined by the single-particle energies as mentioned above, is actually larger. It was used by [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/adma.200501717&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Scharber 2006&lt;/a&gt;] as upper limit for Voc (q Voc = HOMO(A)-LUMO(D) - 0.3 eV), but that is rather an empirical relation. 

Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Katie, thanks:) Energy levels are not an easy topic, there is a lot of controversy already in the naming. Essentially what can be measured are only the charged molecular orbitals. The most reliable method is photoemission spectroscopy. For application on organic semiconductors, see [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.085202" rel="nofollow">Deibel 2010</a>] and [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.orgel.2010.07.023" rel="nofollow">Guan 2010</a>]. The latter is on a blend and thus more relevant to your question. Nevertheless, photoemission spectroscopy is about energy levels occupied with single particles, electrons OR holes. Cyclovoltammetry measures the same levels but is less reliable. </p>
<p>However, you are probably more interested in finding the maximum of the open circuit voltage. Here, you could determine Voc(T) and extrapolate to 0K, as done in [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.125204" rel="nofollow">Vandewal 2010</a>] or [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.3566979" rel="nofollow">Rauh 2011</a>]. This measurement determines the effective bandgap which goes into the equation for the open circuit voltage [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.77.165332" rel="nofollow">Cheyns 2008</a>]. This equation and the measurements given are directly about the effective bandgap. The actual HOMO(A)-LUMO(D) gap, as determined by the single-particle energies as mentioned above, is actually larger. It was used by [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/adma.200501717" rel="nofollow">Scharber 2006</a>] as upper limit for Voc (q Voc = HOMO(A)-LUMO(D) &#8211; 0.3 eV), but that is rather an empirical relation. </p>
<p>Best, Carsten</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by Katie</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-344</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 16:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Mr. Carsten,
      Your blog is highly useful and  extremely appreciable. I am a student from India who started learning organic solar cells two months ago. 
I have a doubt which might seem very silly to a scientist like you. But I would be greatful if you can help me. 
How to find the interfacial energy gap ( HOMO(A) - LUMO (D) ) practically? 
Hope I am not bothering you..
Thankyou
Katie :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Carsten,<br />
      Your blog is highly useful and  extremely appreciable. I am a student from India who started learning organic solar cells two months ago.<br />
I have a doubt which might seem very silly to a scientist like you. But I would be greatful if you can help me.<br />
How to find the interfacial energy gap ( HOMO(A) &#8211; LUMO (D) ) practically?<br />
Hope I am not bothering you..<br />
Thankyou<br />
Katie <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Two notes by Katie</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/11/09/two-notes/#comment-343</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=572#comment-343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Mr. Carsten . Your blog is really so useful...:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mr. Carsten . Your blog is really so useful&#8230;:)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Brief Ad: Organic Solar Cell Review Online [Update] by Jansky</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/08/18/brief-ad-organic-solar-cell-review-online/#comment-342</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jansky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/?p=522#comment-342</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the read,awesome as always]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the read,awesome as always</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Blue suits him better than pink by António Trindade</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/05/10/blue-suits-him-better-than-pink/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[António Trindade]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 11:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=599#comment-330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulations Dr. Carsten! :)
Hope everything goes well and all the best for your sleepless nights ;) hehehe

With My best Regards

António]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations Dr. Carsten! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Hope everything goes well and all the best for your sleepless nights <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  hehehe</p>
<p>With My best Regards</p>
<p>António</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on New life &#8211; now for real by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/03/10/new-life-now-for-real/#comment-325</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Burhan!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Burhan!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on New life &#8211; now for real by Burhan</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/03/10/new-life-now-for-real/#comment-324</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Burhan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulations!  Thank you for your writing and insights. Your blog is role model for researchers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations!  Thank you for your writing and insights. Your blog is role model for researchers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on New life &#8211; now for real by Art L.</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/03/10/new-life-now-for-real/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Mar 2011 19:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulations! You have been blessed.
I enjoy your writings and wish the best
for your family.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations! You have been blessed.<br />
I enjoy your writings and wish the best<br />
for your family.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on New life &#8211; now for real by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/03/10/new-life-now-for-real/#comment-321</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2011 17:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks to all of you, I appreciate your congratulations and good wishes!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to all of you, I appreciate your congratulations and good wishes!</p>
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		<title>Comment on New life &#8211; now for real by Sandro</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/03/10/new-life-now-for-real/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulations! You&#039;ll see how life can change so much :-) and you&#039;ll enjoy the &quot;every day progresses&quot; of your little baby! And... hope you&#039;ll have the possibility to sleep at least a little bit more than I had :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations! You&#8217;ll see how life can change so much <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  and you&#8217;ll enjoy the &#8220;every day progresses&#8221; of your little baby! And&#8230; hope you&#8217;ll have the possibility to sleep at least a little bit more than I had <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the good wishes! The definition of anode and cathode is not very specific, it seems to me, and depends also on the action (i.e. can be different for diode and solar cell, light generation vs current generation). Typically, the electrode with the lower work function is called anode in the papers about organic solar cells I know. Concerning the Schubert paper, I think they have a typo, but I am pretty sure they use the correct equation (including the correct t&lt;sub&gt;max&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;) for data evaluation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the good wishes! The definition of anode and cathode is not very specific, it seems to me, and depends also on the action (i.e. can be different for diode and solar cell, light generation vs current generation). Typically, the electrode with the lower work function is called anode in the papers about organic solar cells I know. Concerning the Schubert paper, I think they have a typo, but I am pretty sure they use the correct equation (including the correct t<sub>max</sub><sup>2</sup>) for data evaluation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by Carlos Teixeira</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-318</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carlos Teixeira]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2011 11:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I appreciate your courage to dwell in these matters in the circumstances...
I suppose anode (+) should be substituted for cathode (-) (or electrons by holes)…
When you have the time and had some sleep (according to my experience, things will get steadily worse from now on, until one reaches the IT summit…), referring to the denominator of mobility in CELIV, shouldn’t it be tmax2 in the Schubert et al. paper I mentioned previously, as in your paper Phys. Status Solidi A 206, No. 12, 2731–2736 (2009) ?
Thank you so much for the answer, your thoughts and the Arkhipov paper,
Congratulations, Good Luck and very
Best wishes
Carlos]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate your courage to dwell in these matters in the circumstances&#8230;<br />
I suppose anode (+) should be substituted for cathode (-) (or electrons by holes)…<br />
When you have the time and had some sleep (according to my experience, things will get steadily worse from now on, until one reaches the IT summit…), referring to the denominator of mobility in CELIV, shouldn’t it be tmax2 in the Schubert et al. paper I mentioned previously, as in your paper Phys. Status Solidi A 206, No. 12, 2731–2736 (2009) ?<br />
Thank you so much for the answer, your thoughts and the Arkhipov paper,<br />
Congratulations, Good Luck and very<br />
Best wishes<br />
Carlos</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Aurel, thanks! 

Durrant et al are right: for many &quot;good&quot; organic solar cells at room temperature, the charge generation seems to be field independent. The same is seen by Street et al (PRB 2010, do not have the reference at hand). There are not that many studies on this field. We were able to model the photocurrent of P3HT:PCBM solar cells by a charge generation yield of 60% at short circuit and 50% under open circuit conditions, which is also almost field independent [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.085203&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Limpinsel 2010&lt;/a&gt;].

Space charge build up happens in low mobility materials in the (dark) injection regime (see my reference in the previous comment  in this thread), and sometimes also in the photocurrent [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.94.126602&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mihailetchi 2005&lt;/a&gt;] [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.82.115306&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wagenpfahl 2010&lt;/a&gt;]. I do not think that the &quot;charge buildup&quot; seen by the Durrant group is similar, but have not checked their papers again to make sure.

Our phys stat sol RRL was made under the condition that even at high mobilities the recombination occurs with the Langevin recombination rate. This is not a very good assumption, I am sorry to say. Please find a more applicable simulation here [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/JSTQE.2010.2042142&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wagenpfahl 2010a&lt;/a&gt;]. In any case, it is difficult to get into this high mobility regime with organic semiconductors. Concerning your studies, more important to Voc are probably the energy of the charge transfer complex (the &quot;effective bandgap&quot; or &quot;maximum Voc&quot;) which is, in view of Voc, reduced by charge carrier recombination. What do you mean with &quot;charge buildup&quot; in view of the linear Voc dependence on light intensity? The term does not quite fit here, it seems to me, more important is the recombination regime (1st order recombination or 2nd order, and even then it depends on the &quot;strength&quot; of the recombination&quot;. Details on request;-) Best, C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Aurel, thanks! </p>
<p>Durrant et al are right: for many &#8220;good&#8221; organic solar cells at room temperature, the charge generation seems to be field independent. The same is seen by Street et al (PRB 2010, do not have the reference at hand). There are not that many studies on this field. We were able to model the photocurrent of P3HT:PCBM solar cells by a charge generation yield of 60% at short circuit and 50% under open circuit conditions, which is also almost field independent [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.81.085203" rel="nofollow">Limpinsel 2010</a>].</p>
<p>Space charge build up happens in low mobility materials in the (dark) injection regime (see my reference in the previous comment  in this thread), and sometimes also in the photocurrent [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.94.126602" rel="nofollow">Mihailetchi 2005</a>] [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.82.115306" rel="nofollow">Wagenpfahl 2010</a>]. I do not think that the &#8220;charge buildup&#8221; seen by the Durrant group is similar, but have not checked their papers again to make sure.</p>
<p>Our phys stat sol RRL was made under the condition that even at high mobilities the recombination occurs with the Langevin recombination rate. This is not a very good assumption, I am sorry to say. Please find a more applicable simulation here [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/JSTQE.2010.2042142" rel="nofollow">Wagenpfahl 2010a</a>]. In any case, it is difficult to get into this high mobility regime with organic semiconductors. Concerning your studies, more important to Voc are probably the energy of the charge transfer complex (the &#8220;effective bandgap&#8221; or &#8220;maximum Voc&#8221;) which is, in view of Voc, reduced by charge carrier recombination. What do you mean with &#8220;charge buildup&#8221; in view of the linear Voc dependence on light intensity? The term does not quite fit here, it seems to me, more important is the recombination regime (1st order recombination or 2nd order, and even then it depends on the &#8220;strength&#8221; of the recombination&#8221;. Details on request;-) Best, C</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 18:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is rectification in the dark solar cell, because it is an ambipolar device with asymmetric injection barriers. In forward bias, electrons and holes are injected (from anode resp cathode), in reverse bias the corresponding injection barriers are too high: electrons (holes) cannot easily enter at the cathode (anode). Illumination gives you charge generation within the organic blend, thus generating an additional (negative/extraction) current, but the other boundary conditions remain the same.

Space charge limited currents (SCLC, with Child&#039;s law as the trap-free case) is unrelated to recombination. For details, have a look at [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.1424046&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Arkhipov 2001&lt;/a&gt;], in which the behaviour is well explained for gaussian DOS. The principle is the same for exponential DOS. 

Best, C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is rectification in the dark solar cell, because it is an ambipolar device with asymmetric injection barriers. In forward bias, electrons and holes are injected (from anode resp cathode), in reverse bias the corresponding injection barriers are too high: electrons (holes) cannot easily enter at the cathode (anode). Illumination gives you charge generation within the organic blend, thus generating an additional (negative/extraction) current, but the other boundary conditions remain the same.</p>
<p>Space charge limited currents (SCLC, with Child&#8217;s law as the trap-free case) is unrelated to recombination. For details, have a look at [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.1424046" rel="nofollow">Arkhipov 2001</a>], in which the behaviour is well explained for gaussian DOS. The principle is the same for exponential DOS. </p>
<p>Best, C</p>
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		<title>Comment on New life &#8211; now for real by Weiwei Li</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/03/10/new-life-now-for-real/#comment-314</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Weiwei Li]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulations!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on New life &#8211; now for real by Alex</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/03/10/new-life-now-for-real/#comment-313</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulations Carsten!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations Carsten!!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by Carlos Teixeira</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carlos Teixeira]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Mar 2011 18:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[About my last question, you would probably mention the Schottky barrier.
If you do have the time to come again on the Child’s law (J~ V1.5), could you please comment on:”[…]exponent larger than 2, which is commonly explained by transport with an exponential distribution of traps[…]”, from a paper on trimolecular recombination that mentions your work, by Schubert, M., Steyrleuthner, R., Bange, S., Sellinger, A., Neher, D., Charge transport and recombination in bulk heterojunction solar cells containing a dicyanoimidazole-based acceptor, Phys. Status Solidi A 206, n.º12, 2743-2749 (2009)?
Best wishes,
Carlos]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About my last question, you would probably mention the Schottky barrier.<br />
If you do have the time to come again on the Child’s law (J~ V1.5), could you please comment on:”[…]exponent larger than 2, which is commonly explained by transport with an exponential distribution of traps[…]”, from a paper on trimolecular recombination that mentions your work, by Schubert, M., Steyrleuthner, R., Bange, S., Sellinger, A., Neher, D., Charge transport and recombination in bulk heterojunction solar cells containing a dicyanoimidazole-based acceptor, Phys. Status Solidi A 206, n.º12, 2743-2749 (2009)?<br />
Best wishes,<br />
Carlos</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by Aurel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-307</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aurel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 17:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First many thanks for keeping this blog, it has been very, very useful to me...
Just wanted to point out a paper from Durrant claiming that in some polymer cells current generation does not seem to be field dependant (they use Transient absorption techniques to compare different devices with very different J-V characteristics:&#124;J. Phys. Chem. Lett. 2010, 1, 3306–3310). 
I&#039;m very new to this field and there are some things I don&#039;t understand like the space charge concept. About space charge build up in organic solar cells (suposedly due to lower mobility and higher trap concentration, right?), is there any way to characterise such space charge? Some charge extraction experiements have been reported on polymer-based solar cells where the excess charge in the devices often follows an steep increase with light bias (suposedly exponential)(see:Shuttle et al. Appl.Phys LEtt.,93,183501, 2008; Shuttle et al. Appl.Phys Lett.,92,093311 (2008); Hamilton et al. J.Phys. Chem. Lett., 2010, 1, 1432). Is this charge build such &quot;space charge build up&quot;? From you paper, phys. stat. sol. (RRL), 2, 175 (2008), I understand that &quot;efficient charge extraction at high mobility&quot; limits Open circuit voltage, because there won&#039;t be any charge build up and if mobility is too low charge build up will increase giving high VOC but low current. However some studies we are carrying up on small molecule (DPP(TBFu)2)-based BHJ devices (first described by N&#039;Guyen et al.: adv. func. mater. 2009, 19, 3063) seem to show a different trend, as Open circuit voltage is very high (very close to theoretical values, and currents are very high). In contrast to reported devices the charge density show a complete linear dependance on light bias (no charge build up)! Could this mean that band bending in such devices is  significant, then?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First many thanks for keeping this blog, it has been very, very useful to me&#8230;<br />
Just wanted to point out a paper from Durrant claiming that in some polymer cells current generation does not seem to be field dependant (they use Transient absorption techniques to compare different devices with very different J-V characteristics:|J. Phys. Chem. Lett. 2010, 1, 3306–3310).<br />
I&#8217;m very new to this field and there are some things I don&#8217;t understand like the space charge concept. About space charge build up in organic solar cells (suposedly due to lower mobility and higher trap concentration, right?), is there any way to characterise such space charge? Some charge extraction experiements have been reported on polymer-based solar cells where the excess charge in the devices often follows an steep increase with light bias (suposedly exponential)(see:Shuttle et al. Appl.Phys LEtt.,93,183501, 2008; Shuttle et al. Appl.Phys Lett.,92,093311 (2008); Hamilton et al. J.Phys. Chem. Lett., 2010, 1, 1432). Is this charge build such &#8220;space charge build up&#8221;? From you paper, phys. stat. sol. (RRL), 2, 175 (2008), I understand that &#8220;efficient charge extraction at high mobility&#8221; limits Open circuit voltage, because there won&#8217;t be any charge build up and if mobility is too low charge build up will increase giving high VOC but low current. However some studies we are carrying up on small molecule (DPP(TBFu)2)-based BHJ devices (first described by N&#8217;Guyen et al.: adv. func. mater. 2009, 19, 3063) seem to show a different trend, as Open circuit voltage is very high (very close to theoretical values, and currents are very high). In contrast to reported devices the charge density show a complete linear dependance on light bias (no charge build up)! Could this mean that band bending in such devices is  significant, then?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by Carlos Teixeira</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carlos Teixeira]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, for your prompt answer which I thought I would be notified of by wordpress.com or other but only now by chance did I discover it.
Sorry to insist: why is the dark current in the OSC, in reverse bias, which increases the internal field, so low, then? … which is the same thing as asking why does the non-illuminated device act as a rectifier.
Best wishes,
Carlos]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, for your prompt answer which I thought I would be notified of by wordpress.com or other but only now by chance did I discover it.<br />
Sorry to insist: why is the dark current in the OSC, in reverse bias, which increases the internal field, so low, then? … which is the same thing as asking why does the non-illuminated device act as a rectifier.<br />
Best wishes,<br />
Carlos</p>
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		<title>Comment on Comments by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/02/06/comments/#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 08:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=593#comment-293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Chino, that is a good idea, thanks. I&#039;ll have a look. Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chino, that is a good idea, thanks. I&#8217;ll have a look. Best, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Comments by chino</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/02/06/comments/#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chino]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=593#comment-292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have you considered putting up a discussion forum? The one at www.theeestory.com is a good example of a forum where some very technical and interesting scientific conversations appear on a regular basis, unprovoked by the blog&#039;s founder. I think it could draw more visitors to yours.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you considered putting up a discussion forum? The one at <a href="http://www.theeestory.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.theeestory.com</a> is a good example of a forum where some very technical and interesting scientific conversations appear on a regular basis, unprovoked by the blog&#8217;s founder. I think it could draw more visitors to yours.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-287</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Kejia, thanks for your question: it is a good one, and would deserve a post, but I&#039;ll try to give ou a starting point. Singlet and triplet generation upon injection is more relevant for charge injection based devices such as organic light emitting diodes. These are made of a single organic semiconductor, not a blend. Thus, the lowest excited states are &quot;normal&quot; excitons, not charge transfer excitons (or polaron pairs) across a donor-acceptor heterojunction. As the spins of the two exciton constituents can each be up or down, four configurations are possible - one singlet and three triplets. If spin statistics work, you will have a 25% chance of forming a singlet exciton upon injection an  electron and an (uncorrelated) hole into the organic semiconductor. (If the chance can be increased beyond 25% is an important question for the quantum efficiency of OLEDs; interesting albeit older reviews are [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/b96858&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yersin 2004&lt;/a&gt;] and [&lt;a href=&quot;http://stacks.iop.org/JPhysCM/15/R83&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wohlgenannt 2003&lt;/a&gt;], also including the detailed mechanisms). For solar cells, the optical excitation is more important: optically, usually only singlet excitons (for instance on the donor material) are generated, which can become triplets directly only by intersystem crossing. The latter can be on a picosecond time scale, but is still slower than the fs electron transfer, and thus less favourable. Another triplet generation mechanism is electron back transfer, which can occur after successful electron transfer if the charges do not find enough transport paths to get away from the interface (and if the process is energetically possible). For some further reading, see [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/adfm.200900090&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Veldman 2009&lt;/a&gt;].]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kejia, thanks for your question: it is a good one, and would deserve a post, but I&#8217;ll try to give ou a starting point. Singlet and triplet generation upon injection is more relevant for charge injection based devices such as organic light emitting diodes. These are made of a single organic semiconductor, not a blend. Thus, the lowest excited states are &#8220;normal&#8221; excitons, not charge transfer excitons (or polaron pairs) across a donor-acceptor heterojunction. As the spins of the two exciton constituents can each be up or down, four configurations are possible &#8211; one singlet and three triplets. If spin statistics work, you will have a 25% chance of forming a singlet exciton upon injection an  electron and an (uncorrelated) hole into the organic semiconductor. (If the chance can be increased beyond 25% is an important question for the quantum efficiency of OLEDs; interesting albeit older reviews are [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/b96858" rel="nofollow">Yersin 2004</a>] and [<a href="http://stacks.iop.org/JPhysCM/15/R83" rel="nofollow">Wohlgenannt 2003</a>], also including the detailed mechanisms). For solar cells, the optical excitation is more important: optically, usually only singlet excitons (for instance on the donor material) are generated, which can become triplets directly only by intersystem crossing. The latter can be on a picosecond time scale, but is still slower than the fs electron transfer, and thus less favourable. Another triplet generation mechanism is electron back transfer, which can occur after successful electron transfer if the charges do not find enough transport paths to get away from the interface (and if the process is energetically possible). For some further reading, see [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/adfm.200900090" rel="nofollow">Veldman 2009</a>].</p>
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		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by Kejia Li</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kejia Li]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 04:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Dr. Deibel,

Thank you so much for posting so many important terms in your blog, which is really helpful. 

I have a question to ask here about the excitons generation due to charge injection. In this page, as well as in your paper (Rep. Prog. Phys. 73 (2010) 096401), you mentioned &quot;Singlet and triplet excitons can also be formed due to interaction following charge injection&quot;. I&#039;m really curious about how this process happens, because it&#039;s very important to understand the carrier transport at equilibrium and steady state. 

Thank you so much and look forward to your reply.

Kejia]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dr. Deibel,</p>
<p>Thank you so much for posting so many important terms in your blog, which is really helpful. </p>
<p>I have a question to ask here about the excitons generation due to charge injection. In this page, as well as in your paper (Rep. Prog. Phys. 73 (2010) 096401), you mentioned &#8220;Singlet and triplet excitons can also be formed due to interaction following charge injection&#8221;. I&#8217;m really curious about how this process happens, because it&#8217;s very important to understand the carrier transport at equilibrium and steady state. </p>
<p>Thank you so much and look forward to your reply.</p>
<p>Kejia</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 14:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carlos, thanks:) 

In the dark, you do have free charges available in an organic semiconductor device, no matter if made of one semiconductor (e.g., LED) or two (a solar cell). Usually, these carriers are not intrinsic, but injected. If you can inject both electrons and holes, you may have a certain fraction of them interacting, generating excitons (singlet excitons and CT singlet excitons for diode and solar cell, respectively). The latter may recombine, also radiatively. This is the basis for organic light emitting diodes, where the resulting emission is significant. For solar cells, you will also have radiative recombination, but that cannot be seen by eye only, you will probably need a good detector;-) This emission is called electroluminescence, as it results from injection, not photoexcitation. 

Concerning radiation, I do not think that you will have a (significant) discrepancy between the &quot;thermodynamic&quot; measurement and the photon flux on the solar cell surface. Solar irradiation is based on a distribution of photon energies, thus a spectral distribution, with a certain flux depending on the photon energy. For solar irradiation, black body radiation of 5000K or so works pretty well, therefore your detector does not need to measure every part of the spectral range separately. Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carlos, thanks:) </p>
<p>In the dark, you do have free charges available in an organic semiconductor device, no matter if made of one semiconductor (e.g., LED) or two (a solar cell). Usually, these carriers are not intrinsic, but injected. If you can inject both electrons and holes, you may have a certain fraction of them interacting, generating excitons (singlet excitons and CT singlet excitons for diode and solar cell, respectively). The latter may recombine, also radiatively. This is the basis for organic light emitting diodes, where the resulting emission is significant. For solar cells, you will also have radiative recombination, but that cannot be seen by eye only, you will probably need a good detector;-) This emission is called electroluminescence, as it results from injection, not photoexcitation. </p>
<p>Concerning radiation, I do not think that you will have a (significant) discrepancy between the &#8220;thermodynamic&#8221; measurement and the photon flux on the solar cell surface. Solar irradiation is based on a distribution of photon energies, thus a spectral distribution, with a certain flux depending on the photon energy. For solar irradiation, black body radiation of 5000K or so works pretty well, therefore your detector does not need to measure every part of the spectral range separately. Best, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by Carlos Teixeira</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-283</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carlos Teixeira]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Feb 2011 19:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me congratulate you on this excellent blog. Like Chris said on 19th July it is so helpful… we learn things we are not able to acquire from papers.
I would like to ask two rather unprofound questions: first concerning your Current-Voltage characteristics of OSCs. Why is the behavior of the dark current in a general OSC so similar to a Si:c pn junction? Here the concentration gradient from p to n of the available charges allows for a (exponential) positive current as soon as a positive ext voltage lowers the internal potential that exists at equilibrium. The charges themselves are available since kT is of the same order of the ionization energy of the dopants. In a dark OSC, it seems to me you have no available free charges for transport (even after doping). But you mentioned in your note Polaron,…,Exciplex: ”Singlet and triplet excitons can also be formed due to interaction following charge injection…”.  Is it possible that charges injected externally into the OSC (in opposite sense to the photocurrent that would flow under illumination) will somehow generate excitons (in a reversal of the dissociation mechanism exciton to Polaron Pair)? This being the case the more you lower the internal electrostatic field the less dissociation of excitons would take place (contributing to oppose the injected current) and a positive current charge carrier might hop from molecule to molecule… would there be radiative photoluminescence then?
Second (even more boring) question: concerning this figure of 1,3 Kw/m2 of radiation on a 500km orbit satellite (ACRIM program). It seems to me that if you resort to a pyrheliometer you are basically interpreting the power of radiation (irradiance) as a heating power. Since photons transmit chemical energy and brightness (illuminance) in addition to heating a surface, probably there will be far less photons reaching a unit surface (photon flux) than calculated in this way…]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me congratulate you on this excellent blog. Like Chris said on 19th July it is so helpful… we learn things we are not able to acquire from papers.<br />
I would like to ask two rather unprofound questions: first concerning your Current-Voltage characteristics of OSCs. Why is the behavior of the dark current in a general OSC so similar to a Si:c pn junction? Here the concentration gradient from p to n of the available charges allows for a (exponential) positive current as soon as a positive ext voltage lowers the internal potential that exists at equilibrium. The charges themselves are available since kT is of the same order of the ionization energy of the dopants. In a dark OSC, it seems to me you have no available free charges for transport (even after doping). But you mentioned in your note Polaron,…,Exciplex: ”Singlet and triplet excitons can also be formed due to interaction following charge injection…”.  Is it possible that charges injected externally into the OSC (in opposite sense to the photocurrent that would flow under illumination) will somehow generate excitons (in a reversal of the dissociation mechanism exciton to Polaron Pair)? This being the case the more you lower the internal electrostatic field the less dissociation of excitons would take place (contributing to oppose the injected current) and a positive current charge carrier might hop from molecule to molecule… would there be radiative photoluminescence then?<br />
Second (even more boring) question: concerning this figure of 1,3 Kw/m2 of radiation on a 500km orbit satellite (ACRIM program). It seems to me that if you resort to a pyrheliometer you are basically interpreting the power of radiation (irradiance) as a heating power. Since photons transmit chemical energy and brightness (illuminance) in addition to heating a surface, probably there will be far less photons reaching a unit surface (photon flux) than calculated in this way…</p>
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		<title>Comment on Relax by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/01/26/relax/#comment-282</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=587#comment-282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also think that some referee reports might look a little different when they&#039;d to be published along with the paper. For one or two of the reports I received upon which my papers were accepted, I am glad they are not public: although I am fully convinced that these papers deserved to be published (of course I am;-) I think the referee &quot;did not get it&quot;. Might also be funny once in a while, I heard of a comment along the lines &quot;The content of this paper should be reduced, or better oxidised...&quot; ;-) Thus, although I agree that it might improve the peer review system to a certain degree, I think the publishing of the referee reports will take a little longer to be generally accepted (if it ever is). Thus, I am a bit pessimistic about the success changes of putting the comments into the Supp, but hope you will share your experience here!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also think that some referee reports might look a little different when they&#8217;d to be published along with the paper. For one or two of the reports I received upon which my papers were accepted, I am glad they are not public: although I am fully convinced that these papers deserved to be published (of course I am;-) I think the referee &#8220;did not get it&#8221;. Might also be funny once in a while, I heard of a comment along the lines &#8220;The content of this paper should be reduced, or better oxidised&#8230;&#8221; <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Thus, although I agree that it might improve the peer review system to a certain degree, I think the publishing of the referee reports will take a little longer to be generally accepted (if it ever is). Thus, I am a bit pessimistic about the success changes of putting the comments into the Supp, but hope you will share your experience here!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Relax by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/01/26/relax/#comment-281</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=587#comment-281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[21 papers, wow, I thought I reviewed a lot and I &#039;only&#039; did 14 papers last year.

Now we have supp. info. for nearly every paper, I can&#039;t see there being any problem with publishing the review process in full, as a guide to readers. Of course, you don&#039;t need to publish reviewers&#039; names, but if reviewers are worried their reviews will look bad to the public , then this can only be a positive force for improvement. It&#039;s not the peer review system which is imperfect; only the peers who do the reviews. Also, if the review is published freely, a disagreement between author and reviewer can be left open.. let the readers decide if the reviewer is making a fair criticism or not.

I will definitely  try and put my review in the Supp of my next paper.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>21 papers, wow, I thought I reviewed a lot and I &#8216;only&#8217; did 14 papers last year.</p>
<p>Now we have supp. info. for nearly every paper, I can&#8217;t see there being any problem with publishing the review process in full, as a guide to readers. Of course, you don&#8217;t need to publish reviewers&#8217; names, but if reviewers are worried their reviews will look bad to the public , then this can only be a positive force for improvement. It&#8217;s not the peer review system which is imperfect; only the peers who do the reviews. Also, if the review is published freely, a disagreement between author and reviewer can be left open.. let the readers decide if the reviewer is making a fair criticism or not.</p>
<p>I will definitely  try and put my review in the Supp of my next paper.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2011 by lovelovebear</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/01/06/2011/#comment-279</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lovelovebear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=577#comment-279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Although it&#039;s too late to say happy new year, I just want to say thank you for your enlightening blogs. Hope you have a great year!

Kejia]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although it&#8217;s too late to say happy new year, I just want to say thank you for your enlightening blogs. Hope you have a great year!</p>
<p>Kejia</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2011 by shoelevy</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/01/06/2011/#comment-278</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shoelevy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 02:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=577#comment-278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Carsten, I appreciate you taking time off work to blog about your professional matters in OPV.
The progress in my PhD has benefitted a great deal from the topics covered here.

Once again, thank you and have a great 2011.

Regards,
Kim Hai]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carsten, I appreciate you taking time off work to blog about your professional matters in OPV.<br />
The progress in my PhD has benefitted a great deal from the topics covered here.</p>
<p>Once again, thank you and have a great 2011.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Kim Hai</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2011 by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/01/06/2011/#comment-277</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=577#comment-277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Happy New Year everyone!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy New Year everyone!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-276</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We do need some definition for terms, and the description you offer here is a good start but I dont know if i would describe them exactly as you do here. Firstly your description of an exciplex is not great; an exciplex is an excited state complex between two different chromophores. By definition the excited state is shared by the two chromophores. If the two chromophores are the same you get an excimer (excited state dimer). You also dont differentiate between chromophores and molecules. Also there is a problem with what is the actual difference between your definition of an exciton (a bound electron hole pair) and a polaron pair (a bound electron hole pair). For me, possibly the easiest definition of the difference is that in an exciton , hole and electron effect their surroundings as a unit, i.e. they relax as a unit. In a polaron pair , there are two polarons which relax individually into their surroundings, but due to their proximity apply coulombic interaction on each other. But this is only what i think. As a community we definitely need agreed upon definitions and we need them soon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We do need some definition for terms, and the description you offer here is a good start but I dont know if i would describe them exactly as you do here. Firstly your description of an exciplex is not great; an exciplex is an excited state complex between two different chromophores. By definition the excited state is shared by the two chromophores. If the two chromophores are the same you get an excimer (excited state dimer). You also dont differentiate between chromophores and molecules. Also there is a problem with what is the actual difference between your definition of an exciton (a bound electron hole pair) and a polaron pair (a bound electron hole pair). For me, possibly the easiest definition of the difference is that in an exciton , hole and electron effect their surroundings as a unit, i.e. they relax as a unit. In a polaron pair , there are two polarons which relax individually into their surroundings, but due to their proximity apply coulombic interaction on each other. But this is only what i think. As a community we definitely need agreed upon definitions and we need them soon.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2011 by armismelas</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/01/06/2011/#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armismelas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=577#comment-241</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Happy new year! I too learn from your blog]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy new year! I too learn from your blog</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on 2011 by weiweili</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/01/06/2011/#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[weiweili]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 19:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=577#comment-240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Happy new year! Indeed I learn much from your blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy new year! Indeed I learn much from your blog.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on 2011 by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2011/01/06/2011/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 17:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=577#comment-239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for constantly keeping us posted, Carsten. I for one very much appreciate it. Happy new year!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for constantly keeping us posted, Carsten. I for one very much appreciate it. Happy new year!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Nov 2010 19:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Mark, thanks for your email! Brief answers for now. 

1 (Voc) The maximum Voc depends on the effective bandgap, which is indeed very close to the LUMO(A)-HOMO(D) gap. This value is reduced by band bending in the bulk as well as the injection barriers. Band bending is proportional to the steady state carrier concentration, which can be increased by photogeneration and decreased by recombination. Thus far, similar to inorganics. A difference is in the answer to 

2 (junction): we simulate the bulk heterojunction as an effective medium, as we have a one-dimensional simulation. If you want to approximate the distributed heterojunction, you need at least a 2D simulation. The effective medium approach works pretty well, only thing missing is that for large phase donor-acceptor separation, the local band bending is neglected in our 1D approach. What are we missing with that? The local band bending can partly compensate for effects reducing the Voc. The extreme case is the bilayer solar cell, for which you can increase the injection barriers a lot without decreasing Voc... the latter is compensated by the band bending at the planar D-A heterojunction. In large phase separated bulk heterojunctions, this effect will be weaker, and therefore we do not consider it. 

3 (concentration): the organics we work with are usually semiconductors or even insulators. Mostly, everything can be well described if you consider zero doping. Thus charges come from injection (thermionic emission model with maybe 0.1eV injection barriers or so at anode and cathode) and photogeneration (generation rate of around $latex 6 \cdot 10^{27} \textrm{m}^{-3}\textrm{s}^{-1}$. So, open for discussion:-) 

Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mark, thanks for your email! Brief answers for now. </p>
<p>1 (Voc) The maximum Voc depends on the effective bandgap, which is indeed very close to the LUMO(A)-HOMO(D) gap. This value is reduced by band bending in the bulk as well as the injection barriers. Band bending is proportional to the steady state carrier concentration, which can be increased by photogeneration and decreased by recombination. Thus far, similar to inorganics. A difference is in the answer to </p>
<p>2 (junction): we simulate the bulk heterojunction as an effective medium, as we have a one-dimensional simulation. If you want to approximate the distributed heterojunction, you need at least a 2D simulation. The effective medium approach works pretty well, only thing missing is that for large phase donor-acceptor separation, the local band bending is neglected in our 1D approach. What are we missing with that? The local band bending can partly compensate for effects reducing the Voc. The extreme case is the bilayer solar cell, for which you can increase the injection barriers a lot without decreasing Voc&#8230; the latter is compensated by the band bending at the planar D-A heterojunction. In large phase separated bulk heterojunctions, this effect will be weaker, and therefore we do not consider it. </p>
<p>3 (concentration): the organics we work with are usually semiconductors or even insulators. Mostly, everything can be well described if you consider zero doping. Thus charges come from injection (thermionic emission model with maybe 0.1eV injection barriers or so at anode and cathode) and photogeneration (generation rate of around <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=6+%5Ccdot+10%5E%7B27%7D+%5Ctextrm%7Bm%7D%5E%7B-3%7D%5Ctextrm%7Bs%7D%5E%7B-1%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='6 &#92;cdot 10^{27} &#92;textrm{m}^{-3}&#92;textrm{s}^{-1}' title='6 &#92;cdot 10^{27} &#92;textrm{m}^{-3}&#92;textrm{s}^{-1}' class='latex' />. So, open for discussion:-) </p>
<p>Best, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by denilson12001</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[denilson12001]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Nov 2010 19:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Deibel,

I have three questions about your electrical modeling of organic solar cells (OSCs). Hope those won&#039;t bother you.

1. According to most papers of OSCs, the Voc just depends on the difference of LUMO(acceptor) and HOMO(donor). But based on my modeling experience of &quot;inorganic&quot; solar cells, the Voc will depend on the &quot;band barriers&quot; of conduction band and valence band for heterojunction. Although the bimolecular recombination also controls the point of Voc, the band barrier still dominates.

Would you please make some comments on that difference of Voc mechanism between inorganic and organic solar cells.

For OPV:
Band barrier for conduction band: LUMO(donor)-LUMO(acceptor)
Band Barrier for valence band: HOMO(acceptor)-HOMO(donor) 

2. In your simulation, do you consider the heterojunction effects? Or just simplify your model into &quot;HOMOJUNCTION&quot; with effective materials? 

3. Do you have to set the carrier concentration of donor(p-type) and acceptor(n-type)? Would you please give me rough numbers as reference?

I really appreciate you spend much time establishing this fruitful discussion panel, which helps me fast broaden my organic material knowledge.

In fact, even though I&#039;m interested in electrical working mechanism of organic solar cells, I can&#039;t learn those knowledge efficiently since our group is focusing on nanostrcuture fabrication for &quot;inorganic&quot; solar cells.
(http://www.ieo.nctu.edu.tw/gpl/mainForEnglish.php)I hope you don&#039;t mind putting the link here.:P

Anyway, really thanks for your kind patience. 
(p.s. I also think the bimolecular recombination dominate the recombination mechanisms in OSC system, since inorganic solar cells have similar properties.)

Mark]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Deibel,</p>
<p>I have three questions about your electrical modeling of organic solar cells (OSCs). Hope those won&#8217;t bother you.</p>
<p>1. According to most papers of OSCs, the Voc just depends on the difference of LUMO(acceptor) and HOMO(donor). But based on my modeling experience of &#8220;inorganic&#8221; solar cells, the Voc will depend on the &#8220;band barriers&#8221; of conduction band and valence band for heterojunction. Although the bimolecular recombination also controls the point of Voc, the band barrier still dominates.</p>
<p>Would you please make some comments on that difference of Voc mechanism between inorganic and organic solar cells.</p>
<p>For OPV:<br />
Band barrier for conduction band: LUMO(donor)-LUMO(acceptor)<br />
Band Barrier for valence band: HOMO(acceptor)-HOMO(donor) </p>
<p>2. In your simulation, do you consider the heterojunction effects? Or just simplify your model into &#8220;HOMOJUNCTION&#8221; with effective materials? </p>
<p>3. Do you have to set the carrier concentration of donor(p-type) and acceptor(n-type)? Would you please give me rough numbers as reference?</p>
<p>I really appreciate you spend much time establishing this fruitful discussion panel, which helps me fast broaden my organic material knowledge.</p>
<p>In fact, even though I&#8217;m interested in electrical working mechanism of organic solar cells, I can&#8217;t learn those knowledge efficiently since our group is focusing on nanostrcuture fabrication for &#8220;inorganic&#8221; solar cells.<br />
(<a href="http://www.ieo.nctu.edu.tw/gpl/mainForEnglish.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.ieo.nctu.edu.tw/gpl/mainForEnglish.php</a>)I hope you don&#8217;t mind putting the link here.:P</p>
<p>Anyway, really thanks for your kind patience.<br />
(p.s. I also think the bimolecular recombination dominate the recombination mechanisms in OSC system, since inorganic solar cells have similar properties.)</p>
<p>Mark</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by armismelas</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armismelas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 23:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow :) didn&#039;t expect it to be that small. That&#039;s so interesting, I&#039;ll keep reading!
Thanks for claryfing those points for me]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  didn&#8217;t expect it to be that small. That&#8217;s so interesting, I&#8217;ll keep reading!<br />
Thanks for claryfing those points for me</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[$latex \zeta$ is typically in the range between 10-3 and 0.1, as reported by Juska, Durrant or our group. Still fascinating that despite this lowered prefactor, the open circuit voltage is so heaviliy influenced by bimolecular recombination! 

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Czeta&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;zeta' title='&#92;zeta' class='latex' /> is typically in the range between 10-3 and 0.1, as reported by Juska, Durrant or our group. Still fascinating that despite this lowered prefactor, the open circuit voltage is so heaviliy influenced by bimolecular recombination! </p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by armismelas</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armismelas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 09:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I got it now :) sorry for the confusion. The additional prefactor $latex \zeta $ you mentioned clarified it for me. Thanks

I am just curious how large those deviations could be? I mean the values of $latex \zeta $]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got it now <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  sorry for the confusion. The additional prefactor <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Czeta+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;zeta ' title='&#92;zeta ' class='latex' /> you mentioned clarified it for me. Thanks</p>
<p>I am just curious how large those deviations could be? I mean the values of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Czeta+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;zeta ' title='&#92;zeta ' class='latex' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on Two notes by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/11/09/two-notes/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=572#comment-228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You could as well ask why people have started with CIGS solar cells, which were started on rigid substrates, when already silicon solar cells with better efficiencies where present. Actually, 9 years back I gave a talk on device lifetime testing of CIGS solar cells, and was asked just that question;-)  

Of course your question was more precise and deserves a better answer than that! CIGS is nice, and I hope it will gain market share. Its two only severe problems I see are (1) the complex material combination with four to five elements (in addition to Cu, In, Ga, Se also often sulfur, and Na also having an important role) in the active layer. And (2), in comparison to organic solar cells, it needs higher processing temperatures (e.g., sputtering and rapid thermal annealing, maybe at 550 degree C), but can even be printed.  

Polymer-fullerene solar cells or organics in general are in my opinion not thought as replacement for the more established inorganic solar cell technologies. However, they can be printed at high speed at room temperature, suitable for mass production, and thus have the potential to be processed more cheaply. Also, if required, the colour of the active layer can be adjusted &#8211; which is rather a niche market, but as I said, it is not thought to replace other technologies. Last not least, the  chemistry and physics involved are very interesting from a fundamental point of view (which is, incidentally, my point of view;-) 

Best, C 

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could as well ask why people have started with CIGS solar cells, which were started on rigid substrates, when already silicon solar cells with better efficiencies where present. Actually, 9 years back I gave a talk on device lifetime testing of CIGS solar cells, and was asked just that question;-)  </p>
<p>Of course your question was more precise and deserves a better answer than that! CIGS is nice, and I hope it will gain market share. Its two only severe problems I see are (1) the complex material combination with four to five elements (in addition to Cu, In, Ga, Se also often sulfur, and Na also having an important role) in the active layer. And (2), in comparison to organic solar cells, it needs higher processing temperatures (e.g., sputtering and rapid thermal annealing, maybe at 550 degree C), but can even be printed.  </p>
<p>Polymer-fullerene solar cells or organics in general are in my opinion not thought as replacement for the more established inorganic solar cell technologies. However, they can be printed at high speed at room temperature, suitable for mass production, and thus have the potential to be processed more cheaply. Also, if required, the colour of the active layer can be adjusted &ndash; which is rather a niche market, but as I said, it is not thought to replace other technologies. Last not least, the  chemistry and physics involved are very interesting from a fundamental point of view (which is, incidentally, my point of view;-) </p>
<p>Best, C </p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am really sorry, but I just don&#039;t get your point. Why an exponent of only 0.8 (your previous comment), and where should the proportionality constant come from? Of course, you get a prefactor when solving the continuity equation, but that does not change the recombination rate $latex R$ (which is actually, more precisely, $latex R_\text{Langevin} = \gamma (np - n_i^2)$, but that&#039;s another story;-) Experimentally, though, you can of course have deviations from Langevin&#039;s theory; ,in our group, we call this additional prefactor $latex \zeta$.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am really sorry, but I just don&#8217;t get your point. Why an exponent of only 0.8 (your previous comment), and where should the proportionality constant come from? Of course, you get a prefactor when solving the continuity equation, but that does not change the recombination rate <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=R&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='R' title='R' class='latex' /> (which is actually, more precisely, <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=R_%5Ctext%7BLangevin%7D+%3D+%5Cgamma+%28np+-+n_i%5E2%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='R_&#92;text{Langevin} = &#92;gamma (np - n_i^2)' title='R_&#92;text{Langevin} = &#92;gamma (np - n_i^2)' class='latex' />, but that&#8217;s another story;-) Experimentally, though, you can of course have deviations from Langevin&#8217;s theory; ,in our group, we call this additional prefactor <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Czeta&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;zeta' title='&#92;zeta' class='latex' />.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by armismelas</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armismelas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apologies, I meant $latex - A /gamma n p $]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies, I meant <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=-+A+%2Fgamma+n+p+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='- A /gamma n p ' title='- A /gamma n p ' class='latex' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by armismelas</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armismelas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Calculating the recombination rate: I realise the recombination current is $latex -\gamma q p $ and in addition the recombination rate should also be proportional to electron density. What I don&#039;t understand is why isn&#039;t there a proportionality factor A $latex A -\gamma n p $
I apologize if I am making this really unclear but I just want to understand :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calculating the recombination rate: I realise the recombination current is <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=-%5Cgamma+q+p+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='-&#92;gamma q p ' title='-&#92;gamma q p ' class='latex' /> and in addition the recombination rate should also be proportional to electron density. What I don&#8217;t understand is why isn&#8217;t there a proportionality factor A <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=A+-%5Cgamma+n+p+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='A -&#92;gamma n p ' title='A -&#92;gamma n p ' class='latex' /><br />
I apologize if I am making this really unclear but I just want to understand <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Two notes by robert699</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/11/09/two-notes/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[robert699]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 13:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=572#comment-224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Indeed, it&#039;s an interesting one! Currently I&#039;m writing a paper about this system and compare it to convetional TFPV on soda lime glass. So why is there so much interest in organic photovoltaics cells, if there is a different flexible solar cell with better performance out there i.e. CIGS on PI. Are production costs again expected to be lower than with flexible inorganic cells. I mean flex. inorganic cells could reach efficiency of 15% within the next years whereas for organic solar cells it&#039;s still a long way to go. So what makes it so interesting for many researchers?

Best Robert]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, it&#8217;s an interesting one! Currently I&#8217;m writing a paper about this system and compare it to convetional TFPV on soda lime glass. So why is there so much interest in organic photovoltaics cells, if there is a different flexible solar cell with better performance out there i.e. CIGS on PI. Are production costs again expected to be lower than with flexible inorganic cells. I mean flex. inorganic cells could reach efficiency of 15% within the next years whereas for organic solar cells it&#8217;s still a long way to go. So what makes it so interesting for many researchers?</p>
<p>Best Robert</p>
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		<title>Comment on Two notes by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/11/09/two-notes/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=572#comment-223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scaling up is an art in itself. Nevertheless, for polymer-fullerene solar cells, the efficiency record tables by Martin Green show a 3.5% submodule with more than 200 cm&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt; by Solarmer. Heliatek managed to due a 7.2% module with more than 70 cm&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt; active area (accounting for the whole area including the metal grid, it was 5.8%, I believe). Still a way to go, but quite promising.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scaling up is an art in itself. Nevertheless, for polymer-fullerene solar cells, the efficiency record tables by Martin Green show a 3.5% submodule with more than 200 cm<sup>2</sup> by Solarmer. Heliatek managed to due a 7.2% module with more than 70 cm<sup>2</sup> active area (accounting for the whole area including the metal grid, it was 5.8%, I believe). Still a way to go, but quite promising.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Two notes by dkilbride</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/11/09/two-notes/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dkilbride]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 07:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=572#comment-222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m curious what the efficiency is when it is scale up to a larger area.  8.3% for a such a small active area sounds fine but if its 1-2% for a square meter then we have a very long way to go.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious what the efficiency is when it is scale up to a larger area.  8.3% for a such a small active area sounds fine but if its 1-2% for a square meter then we have a very long way to go.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Two notes by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/11/09/two-notes/#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Nov 2010 18:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=572#comment-221</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi! The term organic solar cell corresponds to the material combination used for the active layer: all carbon based. Cu(In,Ga)Se&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;, the active layer material reaching just above 20% on glass substrate and the numbers you quote on polyimide/polymer substrate, is an &lt;u&gt;in&lt;/u&gt;organic composite semiconductor. As only the substrate was organic in the case you state, this does not count as efficiency for an organic solar cell. Nevertheless, a very nice material system: did my PhD on this (well, couple of years back;-). Best, C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! The term organic solar cell corresponds to the material combination used for the active layer: all carbon based. Cu(In,Ga)Se<sub>2</sub>, the active layer material reaching just above 20% on glass substrate and the numbers you quote on polyimide/polymer substrate, is an <u>in</u>organic composite semiconductor. As only the substrate was organic in the case you state, this does not count as efficiency for an organic solar cell. Nevertheless, a very nice material system: did my PhD on this (well, couple of years back;-). Best, C</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-220</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Nov 2010 17:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not sure where the 0.8 exponent should come from: could you elaborate, please?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure where the 0.8 exponent should come from: could you elaborate, please?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Two notes by robert699</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/11/09/two-notes/#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[robert699]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=572#comment-219</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Got a question: Why is it only &quot;8.3% confirmed power conversion efficiency&quot; when I just recently read an article with CIGS on polyimide/polymer substrate achieving 11-12 % cell efficiency. Aren&#039;t these cells organic too or I am completely wrong here? Best, Rob]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got a question: Why is it only &#8220;8.3% confirmed power conversion efficiency&#8221; when I just recently read an article with CIGS on polyimide/polymer substrate achieving 11-12 % cell efficiency. Aren&#8217;t these cells organic too or I am completely wrong here? Best, Rob</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by armismelas</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-218</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armismelas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-218</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, I got it now :)
Regarding the second question I meant why is it $latex -\gamma n p $? Why not $latex -\gamma n^{0.8} p $?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, I got it now <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Regarding the second question I meant why is it <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=-%5Cgamma+n+p+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='-&#92;gamma n p ' title='-&#92;gamma n p ' class='latex' />? Why not <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=-%5Cgamma+n%5E%7B0.8%7D+p+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='-&#92;gamma n^{0.8} p ' title='-&#92;gamma n^{0.8} p ' class='latex' />?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi! Langevin&#039;s theory is very simple but pretty effective. Of course, both electron and hole move, and if they come to within the Coulomb radius, the Coulombic attraction exceeds the thermal energy sufficient for escape. The clever assumption was to make a clear cut: Langevin proposed that every electron-hole pair with a radius smaller than $latex r_c$ recombines, all others do not. This is then generalised to account for the carrier concentrations, i.e., these assumptions are used to calculate a recombination current, and from that the recombination rate including the Langevin prefactor. 

Your question concerning the last equation is a bit unclear to me. The last equation is $latex dn/dt = \dots - \gamma n p$, thus the recombination rate &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; proportional to Langevin recombination strength times electron density times hole density.

Best, C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! Langevin&#8217;s theory is very simple but pretty effective. Of course, both electron and hole move, and if they come to within the Coulomb radius, the Coulombic attraction exceeds the thermal energy sufficient for escape. The clever assumption was to make a clear cut: Langevin proposed that every electron-hole pair with a radius smaller than <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=r_c&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='r_c' title='r_c' class='latex' /> recombines, all others do not. This is then generalised to account for the carrier concentrations, i.e., these assumptions are used to calculate a recombination current, and from that the recombination rate including the Langevin prefactor. </p>
<p>Your question concerning the last equation is a bit unclear to me. The last equation is <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=dn%2Fdt+%3D+%5Cdots+-+%5Cgamma+n+p&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='dn/dt = &#92;dots - &#92;gamma n p' title='dn/dt = &#92;dots - &#92;gamma n p' class='latex' />, thus the recombination rate <i>is</i> proportional to Langevin recombination strength times electron density times hole density.</p>
<p>Best, C</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by armismelas</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armismelas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 12:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yet again nicely presented!

I have a few questions. Calculating the Langevin recombination strength we assume that the hole is moving in an electric field equal to that generated by two point charges seperated by Coulumb radius? Why? I realise if they don&#039;t get within Coulumb radius then thermal energy is sufficient to escape recombination and if they do get within Coulumb radius then they recombine. Is that so? Could you clarify this point to me, thank you
And in the last formula why is the recombination proportional to langevin recombination strength times electron density n? Why not n^2? I realise it should depend on both carrier densities but why a simple multiplication?

thank you]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet again nicely presented!</p>
<p>I have a few questions. Calculating the Langevin recombination strength we assume that the hole is moving in an electric field equal to that generated by two point charges seperated by Coulumb radius? Why? I realise if they don&#8217;t get within Coulumb radius then thermal energy is sufficient to escape recombination and if they do get within Coulumb radius then they recombine. Is that so? Could you clarify this point to me, thank you<br />
And in the last formula why is the recombination proportional to langevin recombination strength times electron density n? Why not n^2? I realise it should depend on both carrier densities but why a simple multiplication?</p>
<p>thank you</p>
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		<title>Comment on Picture Story &#8211; How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/06/05/picture-story-how-do-organic-solar-cells-function/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-214</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, I appreciate it. Keep also commenting;-) Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, I appreciate it. Keep also commenting;-) Best, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Picture Story &#8211; How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? by armismelas</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/06/05/picture-story-how-do-organic-solar-cells-function/#comment-213</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armismelas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very nice! Crystal clear :)

I have done my bachelor on C60/CuPc solar cells. I&#039;ll keep reading this blog!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice! Crystal clear <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I have done my bachelor on C60/CuPc solar cells. I&#8217;ll keep reading this blog!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Publish like a pro by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/14/publish-like-a-pro/#comment-211</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2010 12:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=564#comment-211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks! I fully agree!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks! I fully agree!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Publish like a pro by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/14/publish-like-a-pro/#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2010 11:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=564#comment-210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The advice on writing is good but the stuff about publishing sounds like it was written by people who have forgotten what it was like to be at the bottom and have no reputation. I am a natural cynic but to me, publishing is like a series of gates... first you publish a few in a low impact journal and this represents the bottom gate. Next you send one to a slightly higher impact journal and the reviewers like what you have done before and they let you publish in this higher impact journal. Although your work may all be of equal quality , if you tried to publish your first one in the higher impact journal, reviewers would probably have said no because they don&quot;t know you.  So gradually you work your way up the journals, opening the gates as you go along and this takes several years, if not decades. 

My advice for getting your work published in a high impact journal, build your networks, if your peers know your name, I think it makes a big difference.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The advice on writing is good but the stuff about publishing sounds like it was written by people who have forgotten what it was like to be at the bottom and have no reputation. I am a natural cynic but to me, publishing is like a series of gates&#8230; first you publish a few in a low impact journal and this represents the bottom gate. Next you send one to a slightly higher impact journal and the reviewers like what you have done before and they let you publish in this higher impact journal. Although your work may all be of equal quality , if you tried to publish your first one in the higher impact journal, reviewers would probably have said no because they don&#8221;t know you.  So gradually you work your way up the journals, opening the gates as you go along and this takes several years, if not decades. </p>
<p>My advice for getting your work published in a high impact journal, build your networks, if your peers know your name, I think it makes a big difference.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hot CT complexes and Geminate Recombination by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/05/hot-ct-complexes-and-geminate-recombination/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 21:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=554#comment-208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Starting at Stanford in December, thanks for asking. =)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Starting at Stanford in December, thanks for asking. =)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hot CT complexes and Geminate Recombination by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/05/hot-ct-complexes-and-geminate-recombination/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Oct 2010 06:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=554#comment-207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Alex, thanks! How are the prospects? :) Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Alex, thanks! How are the prospects? <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Best, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hot CT complexes and Geminate Recombination by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/10/05/hot-ct-complexes-and-geminate-recombination/#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Oct 2010 01:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=554#comment-206</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Carsten,

Thanks for the post. If you haven&#039;t seen it already, you may be interested in the following paper: J. Materials Chemistry (2009), 19, 4609.

They deposit P3HT onto ZnO and SAM-modified ZnO and find that the crystallinity of P3HT in proximity to the ZnO layer is changed dramatically, and they argue that the recombination dynamics are modified accordingly. I only just glanced at it, but it seems these findings support the conclusions of your earlier simulations. Hope all is well.

-AA]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Carsten,</p>
<p>Thanks for the post. If you haven&#8217;t seen it already, you may be interested in the following paper: J. Materials Chemistry (2009), 19, 4609.</p>
<p>They deposit P3HT onto ZnO and SAM-modified ZnO and find that the crystallinity of P3HT in proximity to the ZnO layer is changed dramatically, and they argue that the recombination dynamics are modified accordingly. I only just glanced at it, but it seems these findings support the conclusions of your earlier simulations. Hope all is well.</p>
<p>-AA</p>
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		<title>Comment on Metrics &#8211; yet another one by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/09/23/metrics-yet-another-one/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cheers:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheers:)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Metrics &#8211; yet another one by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/09/23/metrics-yet-another-one/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=548#comment-203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Respect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Respect.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5.9% and more by Efficiencies and other notes &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/07/08/5-9/#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Efficiencies and other notes &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=311#comment-202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] recently: 8.13%, although on a small area of 0.1cm2. The evporated small molecule solar cells had almost 6% on a ~10 times larger area. On the SPIE Optics&amp;Photonics conference in August in San Diego I [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently: 8.13%, although on a small area of 0.1cm2. The evporated small molecule solar cells had almost 6% on a ~10 times larger area. On the SPIE Optics&amp;Photonics conference in August in San Diego I [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Record for Organic Solar Cells and other stuff by Efficiencies and other notes &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/08/03/new-record-for-organic-solar-cells-and-other-stuff/#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Efficiencies and other notes &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=505#comment-201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] and other&#160;notes  I mentioned the record bulkheterojunction solar cell from Solarmer recently: 8.13%, although on a small area of 0.1cm2. The evporated small molecule solar cells had almost 6% [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and other&nbsp;notes  I mentioned the record bulkheterojunction solar cell from Solarmer recently: 8.13%, although on a small area of 0.1cm2. The evporated small molecule solar cells had almost 6% [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Brief Ad: Organic Solar Cell Review Online [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/08/18/brief-ad-organic-solar-cell-review-online/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/?p=522#comment-200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Welcome back! I think you pointed this out before;-) I propose we&#039;ll keep an eye or two on the papers to come in favour of and against the CT theory -- and reconsider once in a while. Until then, any input/data backing up your point is very welcome! CU Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome back! I think you pointed this out before;-) I propose we&#8217;ll keep an eye or two on the papers to come in favour of and against the CT theory &#8212; and reconsider once in a while. Until then, any input/data backing up your point is very welcome! CU Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Brief Ad: Organic Solar Cell Review Online [Update] by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/08/18/brief-ad-organic-solar-cell-review-online/#comment-199</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/?p=522#comment-199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not convinced by this CT theory, once the ink is exhausted I think it will leave us gracefully.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not convinced by this CT theory, once the ink is exhausted I think it will leave us gracefully.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by lovelovebear</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lovelovebear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 15:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you. I will digest it first and see what I will figure out. Looking forward to the new posts in this blog. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you. I will digest it first and see what I will figure out. Looking forward to the new posts in this blog. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi llb, thanks for your comment. You like pulling my leg (the &quot;typo&quot; in PRB... ) don&#039;t you ;-) However, in the PRB it is not a typo, but an intended omission -- which we indeed could have explained better! For photo-CELIV (or TPV etc), the recombination takes place close to flatband conditions, and assuming that the spatial current gradient is about zero is pretty good. (By the way, why we wrote $latex \zeta R$ instead of $latex R$ with $latex R=\zeta \gamma np$ is beyond my now). 

Concerning monomolecular recombination, $latex R=n/\tau$ is indeed only an approximation. I believe that I explained this somewhere, but did not find it just yet. Your suggestion is in principal the way to go, but $latex n_0$ is not that easily defined. Should equilibrium carriers not be able to recombine? Equilibrium actually included recombination. So, no $latex n_0$... Thinking about it, charge carriers always need some recombination partner, therefore a recombination of only electrons or holes by themselves is not possible AFAIK. Consequently, there is no monomolecular bulk recombination for free charge carriers, only for excitons, CT complexes etc. We use this simplification only to show the consequences on the device characteristics, even if physically not existant;-)

Looking forward to see you around! C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi llb, thanks for your comment. You like pulling my leg (the &#8220;typo&#8221; in PRB&#8230; ) don&#8217;t you <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  However, in the PRB it is not a typo, but an intended omission &#8212; which we indeed could have explained better! For photo-CELIV (or TPV etc), the recombination takes place close to flatband conditions, and assuming that the spatial current gradient is about zero is pretty good. (By the way, why we wrote <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Czeta+R&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;zeta R' title='&#92;zeta R' class='latex' /> instead of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=R&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='R' title='R' class='latex' /> with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=R%3D%5Czeta+%5Cgamma+np&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='R=&#92;zeta &#92;gamma np' title='R=&#92;zeta &#92;gamma np' class='latex' /> is beyond my now). </p>
<p>Concerning monomolecular recombination, <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=R%3Dn%2F%5Ctau&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='R=n/&#92;tau' title='R=n/&#92;tau' class='latex' /> is indeed only an approximation. I believe that I explained this somewhere, but did not find it just yet. Your suggestion is in principal the way to go, but <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n_0&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n_0' title='n_0' class='latex' /> is not that easily defined. Should equilibrium carriers not be able to recombine? Equilibrium actually included recombination. So, no <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n_0&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n_0' title='n_0' class='latex' />&#8230; Thinking about it, charge carriers always need some recombination partner, therefore a recombination of only electrons or holes by themselves is not possible AFAIK. Consequently, there is no monomolecular bulk recombination for free charge carriers, only for excitons, CT complexes etc. We use this simplification only to show the consequences on the device characteristics, even if physically not existant;-)</p>
<p>Looking forward to see you around! C</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by lovelovebear</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lovelovebear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Carsten. It&#039;s so nice to talk to you. BTW, you are really pro at photography. :) :)

I&#039;m a graduate student and now doing some research on the free polaron lifetime of bulk heterojunction solar cell. You blog helps a lot for me. 
 
Regarding the continuity equation, I think the monomolecular recombination rate should be (n-n0)/tao, where n0 is the negative polaron&#039;s density at the equilibrium condition and tao is the lifetime of negative polaron. What do you think?

Thank you for letting me know that it has a term of 1/q*(dJ/dx). What about the Eq. 14 in the reference PHYSICAL REVIEW B 80, 075203 2009? Is it a typo?

Thank you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Carsten. It&#8217;s so nice to talk to you. BTW, you are really pro at photography. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a graduate student and now doing some research on the free polaron lifetime of bulk heterojunction solar cell. You blog helps a lot for me. </p>
<p>Regarding the continuity equation, I think the monomolecular recombination rate should be (n-n0)/tao, where n0 is the negative polaron&#8217;s density at the equilibrium condition and tao is the lifetime of negative polaron. What do you think?</p>
<p>Thank you for letting me know that it has a term of 1/q*(dJ/dx). What about the Eq. 14 in the reference PHYSICAL REVIEW B 80, 075203 2009? Is it a typo?</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi llb, it does have the term, I just forgot to include it in the typeset equation (no corrected): sorry. It is certainly included in the simulation:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi llb, it does have the term, I just forgot to include it in the typeset equation (no corrected): sorry. It is certainly included in the simulation:)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by lovelovebear</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lovelovebear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Carsten. I have a basic question to ask. Why the continuity equation doesn&#039;t have a term of 1/q*(dJ/dx)at the short circuit condition?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Carsten. I have a basic question to ask. Why the continuity equation doesn&#8217;t have a term of 1/q*(dJ/dx)at the short circuit condition?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by New Record for Organic Solar Cells and other stuff &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[New Record for Organic Solar Cells and other stuff &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 01:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-193</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to PARC, the Palo Alto Research Center, for an interesting discussion with Robert Street about the photocurrent in organic solar cells. We finally agreed to disagree on some issues, but from my point of view, that&#8217;s absolutely [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to PARC, the Palo Alto Research Center, for an interesting discussion with Robert Street about the photocurrent in organic solar cells. We finally agreed to disagree on some issues, but from my point of view, that&#8217;s absolutely [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 04:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Chris, thanks for your kind comment and the question. However, I am not sure if I understand the latter perfectly well, so please tell if my answer is not to the point.

For bimolecular recombination (BR), the photocurrent curves coincide for &quot;normal conditions&quot;, i.e. 1 sun or less illumination (although slight deviations are already seen) and typical recombination conditions. For higher illumination densities or thicker cells, the photocurrent will show the bimolecular signature more clearly -- in case BR is the loss mechanism -- and the Hecht equation as given by Street et al cannot be fitted to the data any more. For 1st order recombination, whatever the reason, and also for no or weak recombination of any kind, the slope d(ln(Jph))/d(ln(Plight)) is always one. 

If you consider instead the voltage dependence, for 1st order recombination the Hecht equation seems pretty capable of fitting the photocurrent (but you can also fit it to cases where the recombination is low -- any type -- or off; just mu tau does not have any real meaning then). For sufficiently low recombination, the extraction length d&lt;sub&gt;c&lt;/sub&gt; &gt; film thickness d will usually imply that almost all charges are extracted. Thus, indeed, dJ/dV will be zero at short circuit &#8211; if the polaron pair dissociation is not (or only weakly) voltage dependent, and there is no minor shunt in the device. The latter is certainly unlikely. The former is a first order process, but it is a geminate recombination: certainly possible.

So what to make of this? Let&#039;s wrap up. The light intensity dependence shows slope 1, but that does not mean much under the measurement conditions (&lt; 0.3 suns, thin devices). dJ/dV is certainly nonzero, which is the sign for recombination (or shunt), but does not tell us whether that is 1st order or second order nongeminate recombination,  or even geminate recombination. Again, you cannot tell just from the photocurrent curves alone.

Concerning my comment: my point was just to show that the steady state techniques used by Street et al. do not make it easy to distinguish between 1st order and second order recombination under the measurement conditions used. Instead, I was taking up the cudgels on behalf of transient techniques;-) My point was not to rule out 1st order recombination for the material system studied. With PCPDTBT-based devices, I do not have much experience. I &lt;em&gt;do not believe&lt;/em&gt; that there will be monomolecular nongeminate recombination, I &lt;em&gt;do believe&lt;/em&gt; there will be bimolecular recombination, but I do not know (in contrast, for P3HT:PCBM I do &lt;em&gt;know&lt;/em&gt; that BR is dominant!). I am just pretty sure that different measurement techniques should be used to investigate the recombination mechanism.

HTH. Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Chris, thanks for your kind comment and the question. However, I am not sure if I understand the latter perfectly well, so please tell if my answer is not to the point.</p>
<p>For bimolecular recombination (BR), the photocurrent curves coincide for &#8220;normal conditions&#8221;, i.e. 1 sun or less illumination (although slight deviations are already seen) and typical recombination conditions. For higher illumination densities or thicker cells, the photocurrent will show the bimolecular signature more clearly &#8212; in case BR is the loss mechanism &#8212; and the Hecht equation as given by Street et al cannot be fitted to the data any more. For 1st order recombination, whatever the reason, and also for no or weak recombination of any kind, the slope d(ln(Jph))/d(ln(Plight)) is always one. </p>
<p>If you consider instead the voltage dependence, for 1st order recombination the Hecht equation seems pretty capable of fitting the photocurrent (but you can also fit it to cases where the recombination is low &#8212; any type &#8212; or off; just mu tau does not have any real meaning then). For sufficiently low recombination, the extraction length d<sub>c</sub> &gt; film thickness d will usually imply that almost all charges are extracted. Thus, indeed, dJ/dV will be zero at short circuit &ndash; if the polaron pair dissociation is not (or only weakly) voltage dependent, and there is no minor shunt in the device. The latter is certainly unlikely. The former is a first order process, but it is a geminate recombination: certainly possible.</p>
<p>So what to make of this? Let&#8217;s wrap up. The light intensity dependence shows slope 1, but that does not mean much under the measurement conditions (&lt; 0.3 suns, thin devices). dJ/dV is certainly nonzero, which is the sign for recombination (or shunt), but does not tell us whether that is 1st order or second order nongeminate recombination,  or even geminate recombination. Again, you cannot tell just from the photocurrent curves alone.</p>
<p>Concerning my comment: my point was just to show that the steady state techniques used by Street et al. do not make it easy to distinguish between 1st order and second order recombination under the measurement conditions used. Instead, I was taking up the cudgels on behalf of transient techniques;-) My point was not to rule out 1st order recombination for the material system studied. With PCPDTBT-based devices, I do not have much experience. I <em>do not believe</em> that there will be monomolecular nongeminate recombination, I <em>do believe</em> there will be bimolecular recombination, but I do not know (in contrast, for P3HT:PCBM I do <em>know</em> that BR is dominant!). I am just pretty sure that different measurement techniques should be used to investigate the recombination mechanism.</p>
<p>HTH. Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by chris800616</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chris800616]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 04:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Deibel, 

I have read almost all of your archives about BHJ organic solar cells and I found it is so helpful (from your discussion on the archives, I have learned something i am not able to acquire from papers:) )..

I have a question: you question Street&#039;s paper by simulaiton first figure in this achieve. From your simulaiton, it is clear that even for bimolecular recombination, all curve concide. 

I am wondering, is that because at short circuit, dJ/dV=0, which means around short circuit, I-V curve is flat. Therefore, at Isc, extraction is sufficient (n,p in the device is very small) and recombinaiton, whatever bimolecular or monomolecular, is neglegible. The slope is 1 between log(Jph) and log( I) because no recombination, only extraction and extraction is monomolecular form. I am wondering, if dJ/dv is not zero at Isc (at short circuit, extraction is not so efficient), there will be recombination and Street&#039;s claim in PRB 2010 could be right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Deibel, </p>
<p>I have read almost all of your archives about BHJ organic solar cells and I found it is so helpful (from your discussion on the archives, I have learned something i am not able to acquire from papers:) )..</p>
<p>I have a question: you question Street&#8217;s paper by simulaiton first figure in this achieve. From your simulaiton, it is clear that even for bimolecular recombination, all curve concide. </p>
<p>I am wondering, is that because at short circuit, dJ/dV=0, which means around short circuit, I-V curve is flat. Therefore, at Isc, extraction is sufficient (n,p in the device is very small) and recombinaiton, whatever bimolecular or monomolecular, is neglegible. The slope is 1 between log(Jph) and log( I) because no recombination, only extraction and extraction is monomolecular form. I am wondering, if dJ/dv is not zero at Isc (at short circuit, extraction is not so efficient), there will be recombination and Street&#8217;s claim in PRB 2010 could be right.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 03:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quite so, but less for proving the efficiency as for seeing how a bilayer behaves. The results or Alex are really striking, and&#8211;including the supporting information with SEM cross sections&#8211;pretty convincing. Still, I discussed with him quite a bit, because I have not stopped wondering why it works so well!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite so, but less for proving the efficiency as for seeing how a bilayer behaves. The results or Alex are really striking, and&ndash;including the supporting information with SEM cross sections&ndash;pretty convincing. Still, I discussed with him quite a bit, because I have not stopped wondering why it works so well!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good question, I am not perfectly sure! I imagine that such a deviation could occur for light intensities in which the concentration of photogenerated charge carriers is smaller than the concentration of dark carriers. The dark carrier concentration could for instance be influenced by doping due to oxygen exposure. Tell me in case you find this idea sane enough to consider and check it;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good question, I am not perfectly sure! I imagine that such a deviation could occur for light intensities in which the concentration of photogenerated charge carriers is smaller than the concentration of dark carriers. The dark carrier concentration could for instance be influenced by doping due to oxygen exposure. Tell me in case you find this idea sane enough to consider and check it;-)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 2 [Update] by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/07/02/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-2/#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carsten, thank you for these thought-provoking updates. A quick question for you: whenever I did light-intensity dependent I-V measurements, I found very frequently that the ratio of the short-circuit current to the light intensity, i.e. the so-called responsivity, appears to diverge at low light intensities. I was wondering whether you&#039;ve ever observed something like this, and also whether you think this could be physically significant. I have not done enough research whether inorganic solar cells exhibit the same trend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carsten, thank you for these thought-provoking updates. A quick question for you: whenever I did light-intensity dependent I-V measurements, I found very frequently that the ratio of the short-circuit current to the light intensity, i.e. the so-called responsivity, appears to diverge at low light intensities. I was wondering whether you&#8217;ve ever observed something like this, and also whether you think this could be physically significant. I have not done enough research whether inorganic solar cells exhibit the same trend.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Blog reference in a book on Flexible Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/02/27/blog-reference-in-a-book-on-flexible-solar-cells/#comment-183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=249#comment-183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fame? Don&#039;t think so;-) but possibly an advertisement. So as you say, in a way both sides profit from it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fame? Don&#8217;t think so;-) but possibly an advertisement. So as you say, in a way both sides profit from it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Blog reference in a book on Flexible Solar Cells by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/02/27/blog-reference-in-a-book-on-flexible-solar-cells/#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=249#comment-182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[P.S. awesome crab pic!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. awesome crab pic!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Blog reference in a book on Flexible Solar Cells by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/02/27/blog-reference-in-a-book-on-flexible-solar-cells/#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=249#comment-181</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh wow, that is certainly not okay! Most people would not be as relaxed about it as you have been. On the bright side, they helped spread your fame.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh wow, that is certainly not okay! Most people would not be as relaxed about it as you have been. On the bright side, they helped spread your fame.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read the Ayzner 2009 paper and thought it was really good. Would have liked to have seen some EQE spectra though]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the Ayzner 2009 paper and thought it was really good. Would have liked to have seen some EQE spectra though</p>
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		<title>Comment on HOPV2010 conference symposium and minor news by mikesovich</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/06/15/hopv2010-conference-symposium-and-minor-news/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mikesovich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=465#comment-171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the information. It sounds like it would be advantageous to go with no competition present.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the information. It sounds like it would be advantageous to go with no competition present.</p>
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		<title>Comment on HOPV2010 conference symposium and minor news by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/06/15/hopv2010-conference-symposium-and-minor-news/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=465#comment-170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A few hundred scientists were present, I&#039;d estimate scientific contents to be 40% organics, 60% hybrid. Only maybe 5 exhibitors for dye solar cells, none for organics I believe. Concerning the commercial merits for you to present there: I cannot really answer that question, sorry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few hundred scientists were present, I&#8217;d estimate scientific contents to be 40% organics, 60% hybrid. Only maybe 5 exhibitors for dye solar cells, none for organics I believe. Concerning the commercial merits for you to present there: I cannot really answer that question, sorry.</p>
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		<title>Comment on HOPV2010 conference symposium and minor news by mikesovich</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/06/15/hopv2010-conference-symposium-and-minor-news/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mikesovich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=465#comment-169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Would this conference be helpful to attend if you are a chemical supplier for companies that produce organic solar cells?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would this conference be helpful to attend if you are a chemical supplier for companies that produce organic solar cells?</p>
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		<title>Comment on HOPV2010 conference symposium and minor news by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/06/15/hopv2010-conference-symposium-and-minor-news/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=465#comment-168</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carsten, I&#039;ll be waiting to hear what conclusions you guys reached at the conference when you get a chance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carsten, I&#8217;ll be waiting to hear what conclusions you guys reached at the conference when you get a chance.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My pleasure! Don&#039;t hesitate to come back for discussion, Nigel. Best wishes, in particular for your research on exciton diffusion, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My pleasure! Don&#8217;t hesitate to come back for discussion, Nigel. Best wishes, in particular for your research on exciton diffusion, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by solarstudent</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[solarstudent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, 
Thanks for the references! - from a first look I think they will be very useful. I did a quick literature search on the topic already and surprisingly I did not find some of these papers, thanks for sending me in the right direction.

Your curiosity :) was very close, although I am not in the Bittner Group, I am an Irish graduate student based in Houston doing some work on organic solar cells. 

Thanks again,

Nigel]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
Thanks for the references! &#8211; from a first look I think they will be very useful. I did a quick literature search on the topic already and surprisingly I did not find some of these papers, thanks for sending me in the right direction.</p>
<p>Your curiosity <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  was very close, although I am not in the Bittner Group, I am an Irish graduate student based in Houston doing some work on organic solar cells. </p>
<p>Thanks again,</p>
<p>Nigel</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi! Not much time now, so only references: more maybe another time;-) 

[&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/ 10.1063/1.2896654&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kurrle 2008&lt;/a&gt;] Determination of exciton diffusion length on an organic crystal. Better even is to combine this method with an optical model (transfer matrix algorithm or so)

[&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jp101340b&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ineverwantedtobeasciencistiwantedtobealumberjack 2010&lt;/a&gt;] 27nm for P3HT, wow, probably only possible for the optimised synthesis routes, because earlier measurements gave much lower values, such as 8nm in [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/adma.200800982&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Shaw 2008&lt;/a&gt;]. If not for a long exciton diffusion length, however, Alex would not have had success with his solution processed bilayer [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/http://dx.doi.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ayzner 2009&lt;/a&gt;]. Regards, C

P.S. from Bittner group? only temporarily? Forgive my (potential) indiscretion, just curiosity;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! Not much time now, so only references: more maybe another time;-) </p>
<p>[<a href="http://dx.doi.org/ 10.1063/1.2896654" rel="nofollow">Kurrle 2008</a>] Determination of exciton diffusion length on an organic crystal. Better even is to combine this method with an optical model (transfer matrix algorithm or so)</p>
<p>[<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jp101340b" rel="nofollow">Ineverwantedtobeasciencistiwantedtobealumberjack 2010</a>] 27nm for P3HT, wow, probably only possible for the optimised synthesis routes, because earlier measurements gave much lower values, such as 8nm in [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/adma.200800982" rel="nofollow">Shaw 2008</a>]. If not for a long exciton diffusion length, however, Alex would not have had success with his solution processed bilayer [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/http://dx.doi.org/" rel="nofollow">Ayzner 2009</a>]. Regards, C</p>
<p>P.S. from Bittner group? only temporarily? Forgive my (potential) indiscretion, just curiosity;)</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? &#8211; Part Two by solarstudent</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/07/how-do-organic-solar-cells-function-part-two/#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[solarstudent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=36#comment-163</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Carsten, I have read much of your blog and find it very interesting - you do a great job at explaining some of the more complex processes in OSCs. I have a quick question for you which may help me an others understand some more about how they work and the important processes involved:

How do you measure the exciton diffusion length and what is theoretical basis for such a measurement?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carsten, I have read much of your blog and find it very interesting &#8211; you do a great job at explaining some of the more complex processes in OSCs. I have a quick question for you which may help me an others understand some more about how they work and the important processes involved:</p>
<p>How do you measure the exciton diffusion length and what is theoretical basis for such a measurement?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That is done. $latex j_\text{photo,saturation}=gGL$ where $latex G$ is the generation rate of free charges. It depends somewhat on voltage. Saturation means large negative bias (hoping that no shunt resistance makes determination of that regime impossible). Nevertheless, it is not as easy: in principle, also charge extraction can be field dependent. From just I(V) curves, one cannot tell!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is done. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=j_%5Ctext%7Bphoto%2Csaturation%7D%3DgGL&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='j_&#92;text{photo,saturation}=gGL' title='j_&#92;text{photo,saturation}=gGL' class='latex' /> where <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=G&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='G' title='G' class='latex' /> is the generation rate of free charges. It depends somewhat on voltage. Saturation means large negative bias (hoping that no shunt resistance makes determination of that regime impossible). Nevertheless, it is not as easy: in principle, also charge extraction can be field dependent. From just I(V) curves, one cannot tell!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The interface is indeed very important, for both geminate and nongeminate recombination. For the latter, smaller surface  (due to larger D-A phases) means less recombination: that is part of the reduction prefactor $latex \zeta$ for Langevin recombination. Larger phases, however, also mean less spatial disorder, thus can mean larger mobility, and therefore higher recombination. Depends really on the details. For geminate recombination, surface dipoles can &quot;extend better&quot; for larger phases, thus influencing separation and losses. Extreme case here is the planar heterojunction. Again, mobility is important for separation, and again it depends also on the spatial (dis)order.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The interface is indeed very important, for both geminate and nongeminate recombination. For the latter, smaller surface  (due to larger D-A phases) means less recombination: that is part of the reduction prefactor <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Czeta&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;zeta' title='&#92;zeta' class='latex' /> for Langevin recombination. Larger phases, however, also mean less spatial disorder, thus can mean larger mobility, and therefore higher recombination. Depends really on the details. For geminate recombination, surface dipoles can &#8220;extend better&#8221; for larger phases, thus influencing separation and losses. Extreme case here is the planar heterojunction. Again, mobility is important for separation, and again it depends also on the spatial (dis)order.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 13:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why cant you apply a sufficient negative bias to the device in order to aid mobile charge extraction and then measure the light intensity vs current slope.  This will give you the losses in the device which are inherent due to geminate pair recombination (probably slope will be linear to start with and then become sub-linear).  Then you short circuit the device, assume geminate recombination losses are more or less the same and deconvolute to get the rate of mobile charge recombination.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why cant you apply a sufficient negative bias to the device in order to aid mobile charge extraction and then measure the light intensity vs current slope.  This will give you the losses in the device which are inherent due to geminate pair recombination (probably slope will be linear to start with and then become sub-linear).  Then you short circuit the device, assume geminate recombination losses are more or less the same and deconvolute to get the rate of mobile charge recombination.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 13:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I vote for donor-acceptor phase separation being most important control on the recombination of freely moving hole and electron or to put it another way recombination is governed by interface surface area and charge concentration.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I vote for donor-acceptor phase separation being most important control on the recombination of freely moving hole and electron or to put it another way recombination is governed by interface surface area and charge concentration.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 12:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-154</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi hsjufeng, thanks for your comment! 

Concerning the reduced prefactor: indeed, 1d simulation implies an effective medium without real world morphology. The latter, i.e. donor-acceptor phase separation will certainly influence the recombination prefactor. 

Two other factors are carrier concentration gradients [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.80.075203&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Deibel 2009&lt;/a&gt;] (already mentioned in the post), which is present even in 1d, and the temperature dependence of mobility and polaron pair lifetime [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jp912262h&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hilczer 2010&lt;/a&gt;]. A nice mix of all three will be pretty close to reality. Unfortunately, all these contributions are not that easily accessible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi hsjufeng, thanks for your comment! </p>
<p>Concerning the reduced prefactor: indeed, 1d simulation implies an effective medium without real world morphology. The latter, i.e. donor-acceptor phase separation will certainly influence the recombination prefactor. </p>
<p>Two other factors are carrier concentration gradients [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevB.80.075203" rel="nofollow">Deibel 2009</a>] (already mentioned in the post), which is present even in 1d, and the temperature dependence of mobility and polaron pair lifetime [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jp912262h" rel="nofollow">Hilczer 2010</a>]. A nice mix of all three will be pretty close to reality. Unfortunately, all these contributions are not that easily accessible.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by hsjufeng</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hsjufeng]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 09:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Carsten. I share the same opinion with you. According to the drift-diffusion modeling [L. Koster et al., Phys. Rev. B 72, 85205 (2005)], at short-circuit charge carriers are more likely to distribute at the electrodes rather than in the bulk, therefore the recombination dependencies at short-circuit are relatively weaker than at open-circuit. 

In my opinion the reduced prefactor of bimolecular recombination may originate from the 1D modeling. It will be interesting to compare the reduced prefactor of 1D version of drift-diffusion model to the 3D one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Carsten. I share the same opinion with you. According to the drift-diffusion modeling [L. Koster et al., Phys. Rev. B 72, 85205 (2005)], at short-circuit charge carriers are more likely to distribute at the electrodes rather than in the bulk, therefore the recombination dependencies at short-circuit are relatively weaker than at open-circuit. </p>
<p>In my opinion the reduced prefactor of bimolecular recombination may originate from the 1D modeling. It will be interesting to compare the reduced prefactor of 1D version of drift-diffusion model to the 3D one.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by Ψ*Ψ</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ψ*Ψ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 18:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, that makes more sense.  Now I owe you beer if/when we end up at the same conference :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, that makes more sense.  Now I owe you beer if/when we end up at the same conference <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 10:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Briefly only, it&#039;s sunday morning (well, more or less;-)

Shuttle [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.2891871&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Shuttle 2008&lt;/a&gt;] and also we [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.3202389&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Foertig 2009&lt;/a&gt;] have published recombination with order of decay larger than two, and explain this by bimolecular recombination (order two) plus trapped charges. If the latter do not actively participate much in the recombination process with the mobile charges, they are detrapped at some point during the measurement and extracted. Therefore, this is not recombination via traps as intermediate states I disussed before.

With band-to-band, a term used for crystalline inorganics, I mean direct recombination of mobile carriers.

Never mind asking questions! Now, concerning the drinks... ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Briefly only, it&#8217;s sunday morning (well, more or less;-)</p>
<p>Shuttle [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.2891871" rel="nofollow">Shuttle 2008</a>] and also we [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.3202389" rel="nofollow">Foertig 2009</a>] have published recombination with order of decay larger than two, and explain this by bimolecular recombination (order two) plus trapped charges. If the latter do not actively participate much in the recombination process with the mobile charges, they are detrapped at some point during the measurement and extracted. Therefore, this is not recombination via traps as intermediate states I disussed before.</p>
<p>With band-to-band, a term used for crystalline inorganics, I mean direct recombination of mobile carriers.</p>
<p>Never mind asking questions! Now, concerning the drinks&#8230; <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by jekaliho</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-141</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jekaliho]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 20:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-141</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Carsten, thanks so much for your prompt and full reply! It has helped me to think about the range of states possible and what they physically mean. Best wishes, Jenna.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carsten, thanks so much for your prompt and full reply! It has helped me to think about the range of states possible and what they physically mean. Best wishes, Jenna.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by Ψ*Ψ</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-140</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ψ*Ψ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 19:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-140</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks!  That&#039;s quite useful.  Your example of a mobile electron recombining with a trapped hole, though...how/why is that different from the trap-limited bimolecular recombination discussed by Shuttle &amp; friends?  (Sorry, no ref--I only know of this work because he&#039;s here for a postdoc and has given a talk or two about it.)
And what exactly do you mean by band-band recombination?

Apologies for the stupid chemist questions.  I&#039;d really love to ply a few people from your side of the field with drinks until they explain things in more accessible terms, but I haven&#039;t found anyone suitable yet.  :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks!  That&#8217;s quite useful.  Your example of a mobile electron recombining with a trapped hole, though&#8230;how/why is that different from the trap-limited bimolecular recombination discussed by Shuttle &amp; friends?  (Sorry, no ref&#8211;I only know of this work because he&#8217;s here for a postdoc and has given a talk or two about it.)<br />
And what exactly do you mean by band-band recombination?</p>
<p>Apologies for the stupid chemist questions.  I&#8217;d really love to ply a few people from your side of the field with drinks until they explain things in more accessible terms, but I haven&#8217;t found anyone suitable yet.  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 09:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi! Nice username;-) 

First, let me point out that I use the term monomolecular recombination as in first order charge carrier decay, where the recombination rate is proportional to either electron or hole. Similarly, I consider  bimolecular recombination to be proportional to the product of electron and hole concentration.

Monomolecular recombination (MR) &quot;=&quot; geminate recombination (GR) is almost right, but not quite... Indeed, GR is monomolecular, but MR is not necessarily geminate. Recombination of a free, mobile electron with a trapped hole can be an example for nongeminate recombination which is monomolecular (actually, the latter is similar to SRH recombination... have to consider this at some point more carefully!)

Shockley-Read-Hall recombination (SRH) is to my knowledge typically found in inorganic crystalline semiconductors (where, just as an additional note, the term (non)geminate loses its importance). In contrast to (bimolecular) band-band recombination or (bimolecular) Langevin recombination, SRH is recombination via an energy level due to impurity or defect. The rate of SRH is generally $latex \frac{pn-n_i^2}{\tau_n(p+n_i)+\tau_p(n+n_i)}$; thus, although it depends on the product of electron and hole concentration, it is practically monomolecular (see details &lt;a href=&quot;http://nanohub.org/topics/RecombinationofElectronsLesson&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and elsewhere, or keep up the discussion;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! Nice username;-) </p>
<p>First, let me point out that I use the term monomolecular recombination as in first order charge carrier decay, where the recombination rate is proportional to either electron or hole. Similarly, I consider  bimolecular recombination to be proportional to the product of electron and hole concentration.</p>
<p>Monomolecular recombination (MR) &#8220;=&#8221; geminate recombination (GR) is almost right, but not quite&#8230; Indeed, GR is monomolecular, but MR is not necessarily geminate. Recombination of a free, mobile electron with a trapped hole can be an example for nongeminate recombination which is monomolecular (actually, the latter is similar to SRH recombination&#8230; have to consider this at some point more carefully!)</p>
<p>Shockley-Read-Hall recombination (SRH) is to my knowledge typically found in inorganic crystalline semiconductors (where, just as an additional note, the term (non)geminate loses its importance). In contrast to (bimolecular) band-band recombination or (bimolecular) Langevin recombination, SRH is recombination via an energy level due to impurity or defect. The rate of SRH is generally <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cfrac%7Bpn-n_i%5E2%7D%7B%5Ctau_n%28p%2Bn_i%29%2B%5Ctau_p%28n%2Bn_i%29%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;frac{pn-n_i^2}{&#92;tau_n(p+n_i)+&#92;tau_p(n+n_i)}' title='&#92;frac{pn-n_i^2}{&#92;tau_n(p+n_i)+&#92;tau_p(n+n_i)}' class='latex' />; thus, although it depends on the product of electron and hole concentration, it is practically monomolecular (see details <a href="http://nanohub.org/topics/RecombinationofElectronsLesson" rel="nofollow">here</a> and elsewhere, or keep up the discussion;-)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by Ψ*Ψ</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ψ*Ψ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 07:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Monomolecular recombination = geminate recombination, right?  Can&#039;t say I&#039;ve ever heard much about Shockley-Read-Hall recombination--would you care to offer a chemist-friendly explanation?  
Thanks for adding to my reading list, by the way.  The more physics-heavy side of organic photovoltaics is still quite unfamiliar ground for me, but it&#039;s very interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monomolecular recombination = geminate recombination, right?  Can&#8217;t say I&#8217;ve ever heard much about Shockley-Read-Hall recombination&#8211;would you care to offer a chemist-friendly explanation?<br />
Thanks for adding to my reading list, by the way.  The more physics-heavy side of organic photovoltaics is still quite unfamiliar ground for me, but it&#8217;s very interesting.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 09:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-136</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Alex, thanks for your comment! In brief: the behaviour of Voc vs light intensity is similar, in as far as only a very dominant recombination is seen. A difference: whereas the slope 1 behaviour in Jsc vs light is one for &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; weak recombination as well as for &lt;em&gt;strong monomolecular&lt;/em&gt; recombination, in Voc vs light intensity a slope 1 is seen  for &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; weak recombination as well as for &lt;em&gt;strong bimolecular&lt;/em&gt; recombination. We go more into detail these days, you are quite right;-) 

Concerning Cheyns, I also believe that SRH is very questionable in our disordered organic systems (despite the fact that I am coathour of that &#8211; otherwise nice &#8211; paper ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Alex, thanks for your comment! In brief: the behaviour of Voc vs light intensity is similar, in as far as only a very dominant recombination is seen. A difference: whereas the slope 1 behaviour in Jsc vs light is one for <em>any</em> weak recombination as well as for <em>strong monomolecular</em> recombination, in Voc vs light intensity a slope 1 is seen  for <em>any</em> weak recombination as well as for <em>strong bimolecular</em> recombination. We go more into detail these days, you are quite right;-) </p>
<p>Concerning Cheyns, I also believe that SRH is very questionable in our disordered organic systems (despite the fact that I am coathour of that &ndash; otherwise nice &ndash; paper <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions [Update] by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/05/06/type-of-polaron-recombination-under-short-circuit-conditions/#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 03:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=446#comment-135</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Carsten. I just wanted to throw out there that both with the bilayers and BHJ&#039;s that I&#039;ve made, I&#039;ve always observed a slope of nearly one (0.93 - 0.98) of log Jsc vs. log light intensity. 

I would be very interested to see your simulated Voc vs. log intensity plots. That is where I&#039;ve seen interesting behavior in the past in direct disagreement with the work of Blom and company from either 2005 or 2003. I think you may have mentioned their work in your MRS talk. In any case, I&#039;m guessing you may be writing that work up so any time after you guys submit would be great. =)

Cheyns, et. al., whom I know for a fact you mentioned in your talk, predicted a slope change in Voc vs. log intensity depending on whether bimolecular or Shockley-Hall-Read recombination was dominant. By the way, I am of the opinion that it should be debated whether the SHR model can be applied to disordered semiconductors with potentially no mobility edge and hence no extended states at all (unless we&#039;re talking crystalline P3HT, etc.). Anyway, I would also be very interested to see the results of yours guys&#039; simulations of how the Voc vs. log intensity response changes as you vary the relative contributions of the two recombination processes. 

That&#039;s my two cents. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Carsten. I just wanted to throw out there that both with the bilayers and BHJ&#8217;s that I&#8217;ve made, I&#8217;ve always observed a slope of nearly one (0.93 &#8211; 0.98) of log Jsc vs. log light intensity. </p>
<p>I would be very interested to see your simulated Voc vs. log intensity plots. That is where I&#8217;ve seen interesting behavior in the past in direct disagreement with the work of Blom and company from either 2005 or 2003. I think you may have mentioned their work in your MRS talk. In any case, I&#8217;m guessing you may be writing that work up so any time after you guys submit would be great. =)</p>
<p>Cheyns, et. al., whom I know for a fact you mentioned in your talk, predicted a slope change in Voc vs. log intensity depending on whether bimolecular or Shockley-Hall-Read recombination was dominant. By the way, I am of the opinion that it should be debated whether the SHR model can be applied to disordered semiconductors with potentially no mobility edge and hence no extended states at all (unless we&#8217;re talking crystalline P3HT, etc.). Anyway, I would also be very interested to see the results of yours guys&#8217; simulations of how the Voc vs. log intensity response changes as you vary the relative contributions of the two recombination processes. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s my two cents. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on MRS Spring Meeting 2010&#8230; already over by Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/04/12/mrs-spring-meeting-2010-already-over/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Type of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit Conditions &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 17:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=430#comment-133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit&#160;Conditions   As promised, here a glimpse of why I believe that recombination in organic bulk heterojunction solar cells at [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Polaron Recombination under Short Circuit&nbsp;Conditions   As promised, here a glimpse of why I believe that recombination in organic bulk heterojunction solar cells at [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on MRS Spring Meeting 2010&#8230; already over by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/04/12/mrs-spring-meeting-2010-already-over/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 17:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=430#comment-132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Weiwei Li! I actually do not know any papers about this debate, which is exactly the problem: there is no (open) debate;-) But give me some time, I&#039;ll try to come up with a post or something more detailed. Cheers, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Weiwei Li! I actually do not know any papers about this debate, which is exactly the problem: there is no (open) debate;-) But give me some time, I&#8217;ll try to come up with a post or something more detailed. Cheers, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Jenna, thanks for your kind comment! Concerning your question, I have added a hopefully helpful update at the end of the post. Best, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jenna, thanks for your kind comment! Concerning your question, I have added a hopefully helpful update at the end of the post. Best, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Polaron, Polaron Pair, Exciton, Exciplex, &#8230; by jekaliho</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/15/polaron-polaron-pair-exciton-exciplex/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jekaliho]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=56#comment-130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello,

Firstly, thank you for your blog! I&#039;m finding it very useful as I&#039;ve just started a PhD in organic solar cells. 

I have a question on exciton-types. Hopefully you might be able to shed some light on my confusion. I&#039;m looking at systems in which Frenkel and Charge-Transfer exctions have been found but I&#039;m trying to get my head round exactly what a CT exciton is. In my (maybe simplified view) it was simply an exciton created when the electron from one material (e.g. polymer) was promoted to (close to) the LUMO level of another material (e.g. fullerene). The article below mentions them but in context of CT states being filled by Frenkel excitons. 

With regards to your diagram would the CT exciton be equivalent to the polaron pair? I presumed it wasn&#039;t or else they&#039;d call it a polaron! It is definitely something shared between materials and no on one molecule so it isn&#039;t an exciplex. Can the polaron pair be generated directly by light absorption? 

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/122630062/PDFSTART

If you can clarify this at all I&#039;ll be very grateful! 

Jenna]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,</p>
<p>Firstly, thank you for your blog! I&#8217;m finding it very useful as I&#8217;ve just started a PhD in organic solar cells. </p>
<p>I have a question on exciton-types. Hopefully you might be able to shed some light on my confusion. I&#8217;m looking at systems in which Frenkel and Charge-Transfer exctions have been found but I&#8217;m trying to get my head round exactly what a CT exciton is. In my (maybe simplified view) it was simply an exciton created when the electron from one material (e.g. polymer) was promoted to (close to) the LUMO level of another material (e.g. fullerene). The article below mentions them but in context of CT states being filled by Frenkel excitons. </p>
<p>With regards to your diagram would the CT exciton be equivalent to the polaron pair? I presumed it wasn&#8217;t or else they&#8217;d call it a polaron! It is definitely something shared between materials and no on one molecule so it isn&#8217;t an exciplex. Can the polaron pair be generated directly by light absorption? </p>
<p><a href="http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/122630062/PDFSTART" rel="nofollow">http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/122630062/PDFSTART</a></p>
<p>If you can clarify this at all I&#8217;ll be very grateful! </p>
<p>Jenna</p>
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		<title>Comment on MRS Spring Meeting 2010&#8230; already over by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/04/12/mrs-spring-meeting-2010-already-over/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 04:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=430#comment-129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It was great to meet you too, Carsten! Hopefully we can reconvene next year at the same place. And thank you for posting your slides. I&#039;d definitely like to look over them again. Take care.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was great to meet you too, Carsten! Hopefully we can reconvene next year at the same place. And thank you for posting your slides. I&#8217;d definitely like to look over them again. Take care.</p>
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		<title>Comment on MRS Spring Meeting 2010&#8230; already over by weiweili</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/04/12/mrs-spring-meeting-2010-already-over/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[weiweili]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 02:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=430#comment-128</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am interested with this sentence, &quot;monomolecular recombination is the limiting factor for organic bulk heterojunction solar cells at short circuit current under one sun illumination&quot;, and also your oppostive view. would you like to introduce some papers about this debate?
thank you very much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am interested with this sentence, &#8220;monomolecular recombination is the limiting factor for organic bulk heterojunction solar cells at short circuit current under one sun illumination&#8221;, and also your oppostive view. would you like to introduce some papers about this debate?<br />
thank you very much.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5.9% and more by MRS Spring Meeting 2010&#8230; already over &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/07/08/5-9/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MRS Spring Meeting 2010&#8230; already over &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=311#comment-127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Leo, Heliatek announced another efficiency record for small molecule solar cells, enhancing their recent achievements to now 7.7% certified efficiency for a tandem cell with 1.1cm2. Again, my congratulations, great [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Leo, Heliatek announced another efficiency record for small molecule solar cells, enhancing their recent achievements to now 7.7% certified efficiency for a tandem cell with 1.1cm2. Again, my congratulations, great [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 12:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unfortunately couldnt make it :-( maybe next year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately couldnt make it <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' />  maybe next year.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Influence of Finite Surface Recombination Velocity on Efficiency vs. Mobility of Polymer Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/08/26/influence-of-finite-surface-on-efficiency-vs-mobility-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=346#comment-125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; always interests me ;-) Thanks! Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, <em>that</em> always interests me <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Thanks! Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Influence of Finite Surface Recombination Velocity on Efficiency vs. Mobility of Polymer Solar Cells by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/08/26/influence-of-finite-surface-on-efficiency-vs-mobility-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 04:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=346#comment-124</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, I just saw this and thought you might be interested. They talk about your work. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp912262h

-Alex]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I just saw this and thought you might be interested. They talk about your work. <a href="http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp912262h" rel="nofollow">http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp912262h</a></p>
<p>-Alex</p>
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		<title>Comment on Be aware of ads&#8230; by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/03/01/be-aware-of-ads/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 05:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=409#comment-123</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, it&#039;s the &quot;other&quot; review, also for non-specialists... the CT review is also submitted, but that Journal does not like arXiv.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s the &#8220;other&#8221; review, also for non-specialists&#8230; the CT review is also submitted, but that Journal does not like arXiv.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Be aware of ads&#8230; by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/03/01/be-aware-of-ads/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 00:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=409#comment-122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the preview. I&#039;ve been forced to think about charge transfer excitons lately and would really like to see your review.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the preview. I&#8217;ve been forced to think about charge transfer excitons lately and would really like to see your review.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by Be aware of ads&#8230; &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Be aware of ads&#8230; &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] aware of&#160;ads&#8230;  I finished the Review article I was recently talking about. If you are interested, the preprint can be accessed here (in a few hours, 20:00 EST [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] aware of&nbsp;ads&#8230;  I finished the Review article I was recently talking about. If you are interested, the preprint can be accessed here (in a few hours, 20:00 EST [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Towards ten percent&#8230; Solarmer hits 7.9% with plastic solar cell by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/12/03/towards-ten-percent-solarmer-hits-7-9-with-plastic-solar-cell/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=389#comment-120</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi! Thanks:-) And sorry for the later answer...finished a review today, and tomorrow is an important project review. So brief comment only for now, hope you understand.

I have never investigated hybrids myself, and have only limited insight. If you look at the systems around, it seems to me that charge transfer itself works... at least for the hybrids with beyond 2% efficiency;-) The open circuit voltage is sometimes better than for polymer:fullerene systems. Taking one example, CdSe/APFO-3, which had a short circuit current density of 7.2 mA/cm&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt; (EQE 40%) and  an open circuit voltage of almost 1 V... [&lt;a href=&quot;http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/nl061085q&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wang 2006&lt;/a&gt;]. Everything is ok, even PL quenching, only the fill factor is a bit low. Therefore, I believe in the morphology as major reason. (What I do not know, though, is how unbalanced the electron and hole mobilities are...) The question is, can it be better controlled, or can modification of either donor or functionalisation of the inorganic help in optimising it? To me, there is no fundamental reason that hybrids should not be beyond 5%!

Greetings to Paul, and good luck;-) and success to you!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! Thanks:-) And sorry for the later answer&#8230;finished a review today, and tomorrow is an important project review. So brief comment only for now, hope you understand.</p>
<p>I have never investigated hybrids myself, and have only limited insight. If you look at the systems around, it seems to me that charge transfer itself works&#8230; at least for the hybrids with beyond 2% efficiency;-) The open circuit voltage is sometimes better than for polymer:fullerene systems. Taking one example, CdSe/APFO-3, which had a short circuit current density of 7.2 mA/cm<sup>2</sup> (EQE 40%) and  an open circuit voltage of almost 1 V&#8230; [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/nl061085q" rel="nofollow">Wang 2006</a>]. Everything is ok, even PL quenching, only the fill factor is a bit low. Therefore, I believe in the morphology as major reason. (What I do not know, though, is how unbalanced the electron and hole mobilities are&#8230;) The question is, can it be better controlled, or can modification of either donor or functionalisation of the inorganic help in optimising it? To me, there is no fundamental reason that hybrids should not be beyond 5%!</p>
<p>Greetings to Paul, and good luck;-) and success to you!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Towards ten percent&#8230; Solarmer hits 7.9% with plastic solar cell by joulear</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/12/03/towards-ten-percent-solarmer-hits-7-9-with-plastic-solar-cell/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joulear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=389#comment-118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, thanks for your answer. I agree that phase separation is a big issue here, but I think the wide band gap material of CdSe is also a limitation. But then  I observe that the hybrid solar cell using narrow band gap such as PbSe, PbS even have smaller PCE. It&#039;s probably because the phase separation issue, but perhaps the band alignment also not favorable for the photoinduced charge transfer. What is your opinion?

nb:I really like your blog, keep it up, It&#039;s open my eyes, ;-), 
I found that you were working in IMEC with Prof. Paul Heremans, He will become my co-promotor for my PhD at KUL.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, thanks for your answer. I agree that phase separation is a big issue here, but I think the wide band gap material of CdSe is also a limitation. But then  I observe that the hybrid solar cell using narrow band gap such as PbSe, PbS even have smaller PCE. It&#8217;s probably because the phase separation issue, but perhaps the band alignment also not favorable for the photoinduced charge transfer. What is your opinion?</p>
<p>nb:I really like your blog, keep it up, It&#8217;s open my eyes, <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ,<br />
I found that you were working in IMEC with Prof. Paul Heremans, He will become my co-promotor for my PhD at KUL.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Towards ten percent&#8230; Solarmer hits 7.9% with plastic solar cell by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/12/03/towards-ten-percent-solarmer-hits-7-9-with-plastic-solar-cell/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=389#comment-117</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi! My take: the limited efficiency of organic-inorganic hybrid solar cells is mainly due to the donor-acceptor phase separation. Fortunately, this is not an ultimate limit. Also, charge transfer etc seem to work fine, and charge separation might be improved due to the higher dielectric constant of the inorganic acceptor. So if someone (you?! ;-) manages to optimise the spatial dimensions of the phase segregation properly, I believe that a couple of percent point more should be possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! My take: the limited efficiency of organic-inorganic hybrid solar cells is mainly due to the donor-acceptor phase separation. Fortunately, this is not an ultimate limit. Also, charge transfer etc seem to work fine, and charge separation might be improved due to the higher dielectric constant of the inorganic acceptor. So if someone (you?! <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  manages to optimise the spatial dimensions of the phase segregation properly, I believe that a couple of percent point more should be possible.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Towards ten percent&#8230; Solarmer hits 7.9% with plastic solar cell by joulear</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/12/03/towards-ten-percent-solarmer-hits-7-9-with-plastic-solar-cell/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joulear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=389#comment-116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello, Can I ask something, As far as I know, the highest efficiency of organic-inorganic BHJ solar cell is around 2.8% (CdSe tetrapod/OC1C10-PPV), what is factor limiting this approach compare to P3HT-PCBM despite its advantages?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, Can I ask something, As far as I know, the highest efficiency of organic-inorganic BHJ solar cell is around 2.8% (CdSe tetrapod/OC1C10-PPV), what is factor limiting this approach compare to P3HT-PCBM despite its advantages?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;d be splendid! :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;d be splendid! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi,

I am not sure if I will be attending or not, hopefully I will go though. I will look out for you if I do go!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I am not sure if I will be attending or not, hopefully I will go though. I will look out for you if I do go!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-113</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent, looking forward to it! :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent, looking forward to it! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes! My talk is two talks after yours in the same session if you can believe it. I would love to get together and get acquainted a little more. My friend and colleague will also be there presenting on the same day, and we have been following/discussing your blog for a while now so maybe we can all grab some food or beer or both after the talks. 

Thanks for giving us a forum to have these discussions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! My talk is two talks after yours in the same session if you can believe it. I would love to get together and get acquainted a little more. My friend and colleague will also be there presenting on the same day, and we have been following/discussing your blog for a while now so maybe we can all grab some food or beer or both after the talks. </p>
<p>Thanks for giving us a forum to have these discussions.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi guys, I appreciate your open way of discussing... and it is all the more interesting if you take different stances (as did I;-) ! As I do not have much time for discussions now, I wonder if any of you will be at the MRS Spring meeting in SF or at the SPIE in San Diego in August?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi guys, I appreciate your open way of discussing&#8230; and it is all the more interesting if you take different stances (as did I;-) ! As I do not have much time for discussions now, I wonder if any of you will be at the MRS Spring meeting in SF or at the SPIE in San Diego in August?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 04:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess we will agree to disagree for the moment. I think this is still a rather nascent offshoot of the polymer-fullerene PV literature, and much still has to be done, but I believe we should at least keep an open mind and not reject the possibilities so quickly. 

I believe the spikes in the PL spectrum from the Adv. Funct. Materials paper are only observed at the high fullerene loading and are in fact due to PCBM emission. I apologize, but I will have to embark on a completely thorough CTE literature exploration at some later time, so I can&#039;t directly comment at the moment on the JACS paper you referred to. 

In terms of the fullerene energy levels, yes it&#039;s very  possible that the bulk HOMO level for PCBM is around 6.1 eV. But presumably the transition from interfacial energetics to the bulk is continuous, so I guess I don&#039;t see it as that troubling that once the barrier is lowered and the applied bias high enough, one could achieve SCL currents. At the same time, I would not call an interface with any significant barrier Ohmic by definition. Again, that doesn&#039;t mean injection from gold to C60 requires overcoming a barrier because once the two interfaces are brought into contact, I believe that the nominal barriers calculated from UPS-type measurements are simply not applicable to the states that emerge due to the interaction between the two layers. Check out this one out of a gazillion papers on the subject: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/la981114f]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess we will agree to disagree for the moment. I think this is still a rather nascent offshoot of the polymer-fullerene PV literature, and much still has to be done, but I believe we should at least keep an open mind and not reject the possibilities so quickly. </p>
<p>I believe the spikes in the PL spectrum from the Adv. Funct. Materials paper are only observed at the high fullerene loading and are in fact due to PCBM emission. I apologize, but I will have to embark on a completely thorough CTE literature exploration at some later time, so I can&#8217;t directly comment at the moment on the JACS paper you referred to. </p>
<p>In terms of the fullerene energy levels, yes it&#8217;s very  possible that the bulk HOMO level for PCBM is around 6.1 eV. But presumably the transition from interfacial energetics to the bulk is continuous, so I guess I don&#8217;t see it as that troubling that once the barrier is lowered and the applied bias high enough, one could achieve SCL currents. At the same time, I would not call an interface with any significant barrier Ohmic by definition. Again, that doesn&#8217;t mean injection from gold to C60 requires overcoming a barrier because once the two interfaces are brought into contact, I believe that the nominal barriers calculated from UPS-type measurements are simply not applicable to the states that emerge due to the interaction between the two layers. Check out this one out of a gazillion papers on the subject: <a href="http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/la981114f" rel="nofollow">http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/la981114f</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi,

You have some good comments, I relish the challenge. Yes I asked for PL, but I asked for PL to match the EL, preferably all from the same group in the same paper. In any case the PL from the Adv. Funct. Mater. paper for MDMOPPV:PCBM doesnt seem to match the PL from MDMOPPV:PCBM in the JACS paper. In the Adv.Funct. Mater. paper the supposedly CT peak is at 1.35-1.40 eV (885 -915 nm) while the CT peak in the JACS paper is 960-970 nm.  I don&#039;t think that the shape of the emission is similar neither. You may think that 50 nm is only a small shift but really given the precision of the equipment it makes you doubt. (Given the similar loadings of PCBM - it cannot be ascribed to any red-shift)

There is a similar story in the RR-P3HT:PCBM CT state emission, in JACS the peak is at 1200 nm while in Adv.Funct.Mater the peak is at 1000 nm??? ( data is unclear here - anyway its not at 1200 nm). Another question is why JACS dont mention a problem in seeing P3HT:PCBM CT while Adv.Funct.Mat. say it is difficult to see. 

Inconsistency in reports of CT is one reason why I find it hard to believe.     

You asked about why CT emission should not shift with PCBM concentration.  These are soft materials and prefer to localise charges, relaxing their electornic structure and shape. For a neighbouring molecule to begin to distort a CT state it would have to be able to offer greater stabilisation for the polaron first and then secondly it would have to offer enough stabilisation to offset the decrease in coulombic attraction that would happen when you move the charges become further apart on average. Given the large binding energy in these soft materials (say 0.5 eV) and the weak interaction between fullerene molecule in the crystal I doubt that neighbouring fullerenes have an influence (although I wouldn&#039;t bet my house on that). I would say that the physical spread in distances between hole and electron is more likely to control the emission energy.  Which bring us nicely to the next point, as CT emission is typically so broad and featureless, why does CT emission in Adv.Funct.Mater. seem to have fine structure. If you look at Fig.2 the emission clearly has spikes? shoulders which is not like CT emission at all, and is more like emission seem from a rigid molecule, like for instance fullerene.



You asked about the intensity of the CT emission versus intensity of PCBM emission, the answer is the authors know because they measured them both. They dont tell us so as a sceptic I assume they are similar and so didn&#039;t provide any additional evidence either way. Anyway I doubt if PCBM emission is negligible, I can measure it here on an old RT fluorimeter (although I must admit it doesnt look as clear as that.)

Regiorandom versus regioregular , I would say that the regioregular data is so unclear that it is almost worthless. If you stare at that data for long enough you will see anything you want. Furthermore the JACS paper doesnt seem to be having a problem seeing P3HT:PCBM CT emission, although of course they see it at a different wavelength. 

You asked about peak shifts as a function of polymer, there is little evidence for any peak shift in the Adv.Funct.Mater paper (at least negligible to what the see in the JACS paper).

You asked about organic-metal interfaces.  I agree who knows what goes on at those kind of interfaces, and most knowledge at this point is only speculation. Personally I think the first layer of organic on a metal undergoes a CT reaction and basically is changed.  Whether that first layer can then distort the second layer however is more difficult. The point is that while the interface between metal-organic is probably doped, the bulk property of C60 at 6.1eV remains unchanged.  How does a metal-organic electrode shift holes into that at space charge limited current? Or more potently, if 1 eV barrier is not a problem for getting ohmic contacts with organics then why do we see evidence for this in the literature. I have only a casual interest in metal organic interfaces however so I don&#039;t know much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>You have some good comments, I relish the challenge. Yes I asked for PL, but I asked for PL to match the EL, preferably all from the same group in the same paper. In any case the PL from the Adv. Funct. Mater. paper for MDMOPPV:PCBM doesnt seem to match the PL from MDMOPPV:PCBM in the JACS paper. In the Adv.Funct. Mater. paper the supposedly CT peak is at 1.35-1.40 eV (885 -915 nm) while the CT peak in the JACS paper is 960-970 nm.  I don&#8217;t think that the shape of the emission is similar neither. You may think that 50 nm is only a small shift but really given the precision of the equipment it makes you doubt. (Given the similar loadings of PCBM &#8211; it cannot be ascribed to any red-shift)</p>
<p>There is a similar story in the RR-P3HT:PCBM CT state emission, in JACS the peak is at 1200 nm while in Adv.Funct.Mater the peak is at 1000 nm??? ( data is unclear here &#8211; anyway its not at 1200 nm). Another question is why JACS dont mention a problem in seeing P3HT:PCBM CT while Adv.Funct.Mat. say it is difficult to see. </p>
<p>Inconsistency in reports of CT is one reason why I find it hard to believe.     </p>
<p>You asked about why CT emission should not shift with PCBM concentration.  These are soft materials and prefer to localise charges, relaxing their electornic structure and shape. For a neighbouring molecule to begin to distort a CT state it would have to be able to offer greater stabilisation for the polaron first and then secondly it would have to offer enough stabilisation to offset the decrease in coulombic attraction that would happen when you move the charges become further apart on average. Given the large binding energy in these soft materials (say 0.5 eV) and the weak interaction between fullerene molecule in the crystal I doubt that neighbouring fullerenes have an influence (although I wouldn&#8217;t bet my house on that). I would say that the physical spread in distances between hole and electron is more likely to control the emission energy.  Which bring us nicely to the next point, as CT emission is typically so broad and featureless, why does CT emission in Adv.Funct.Mater. seem to have fine structure. If you look at Fig.2 the emission clearly has spikes? shoulders which is not like CT emission at all, and is more like emission seem from a rigid molecule, like for instance fullerene.</p>
<p>You asked about the intensity of the CT emission versus intensity of PCBM emission, the answer is the authors know because they measured them both. They dont tell us so as a sceptic I assume they are similar and so didn&#8217;t provide any additional evidence either way. Anyway I doubt if PCBM emission is negligible, I can measure it here on an old RT fluorimeter (although I must admit it doesnt look as clear as that.)</p>
<p>Regiorandom versus regioregular , I would say that the regioregular data is so unclear that it is almost worthless. If you stare at that data for long enough you will see anything you want. Furthermore the JACS paper doesnt seem to be having a problem seeing P3HT:PCBM CT emission, although of course they see it at a different wavelength. </p>
<p>You asked about peak shifts as a function of polymer, there is little evidence for any peak shift in the Adv.Funct.Mater paper (at least negligible to what the see in the JACS paper).</p>
<p>You asked about organic-metal interfaces.  I agree who knows what goes on at those kind of interfaces, and most knowledge at this point is only speculation. Personally I think the first layer of organic on a metal undergoes a CT reaction and basically is changed.  Whether that first layer can then distort the second layer however is more difficult. The point is that while the interface between metal-organic is probably doped, the bulk property of C60 at 6.1eV remains unchanged.  How does a metal-organic electrode shift holes into that at space charge limited current? Or more potently, if 1 eV barrier is not a problem for getting ohmic contacts with organics then why do we see evidence for this in the literature. I have only a casual interest in metal organic interfaces however so I don&#8217;t know much.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Come now, you humbly asked for PL and you were given PL. =) Surely you could add some detail to your disagreements on top of mentioning that the PCBM emission band has a red shoulder.

First, with your permission let me ask you a couple of questions about some of the points you brought up in your earlier discussion with deibel. You mentioned that one would expect a CT band to not shift with PCBM concentration. I don&#039;t see this as that obvious, because one could easily imagine that the polarization that a charge experiences at a polymer-fullerene interface may be different if you have one or two fullerene molecules participating in the complex, especially if they have polar sidechains. Also, what is so peculiar about having a CTE state between polymer and a nanoscale aggregate of PCBM, which could have a modified band structure and thus a shifted CT band?

Now on to your criticisms of the paper I suggested. You say that what lets you dismiss the authors is that Fig. 2 shows PCBM emission in the red. While this is 
certainly true, keep in mind that fullerene emission has a very small quantum yield, so to see PCBM emission takes a sizable amount of fullerene. I personally think it&#039;s very hard to reconcile the intensity of what they assign to CTE emission (relative to the albeit significantly quenched MDMO-PPV PL) with the very low quantum yield of PCBM at the relatively low 20% PCBM weight ratio. 

Next comes the question of regiorandom vs. regioregular P3HT CTE emission. If you claim the red emission is due to the in-gap PCBM defect state, then why would the intensity of this emission be so sensisitve to the polymer self-organization? To me, to explain that you have to invoke some interaction between this defect state that you say is intrinsic to PCBM and the polymer. In that case, this rogue state isn&#039;t as native to the fullerene as you suggest and might itself give rise to new polymer-fullerene CTE-type states. These authors also observe a shift in the &quot;CTE&quot; emission that at least goes in the right direction upon going from a PPV to a polythiophene. Again, why would the energy of the defect emission be so sensitive to the polymer if it&#039;s intrinsic to the fullerene? I will grant you that the authors could have done better in terms of control samples. I would have loved to have seen PL of PCBM in an inert PMMA or polystyrene-type matrix as a function of fullerene loading to isolate the effects of PCBM emission. 

Finally, your statement that C60 can be used as a hole-transporting material in conjuction with gold does not necessitate invoking the existance of a mid-gap state. The energy levels that you quote were measured in ultrahigh vacuum conditions, and the penetration depth in those experiments isn&#039;t that large so the 6.1 eV number measured for the top several layers in contact with vacuum may not at all be representative of the energetics at the buried fullerene-metal interface, with its own charge-transfer processes. Similarly, the workfunction of gold is likely no longer 5 eV when in contact with one or more fullerene layers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come now, you humbly asked for PL and you were given PL. =) Surely you could add some detail to your disagreements on top of mentioning that the PCBM emission band has a red shoulder.</p>
<p>First, with your permission let me ask you a couple of questions about some of the points you brought up in your earlier discussion with deibel. You mentioned that one would expect a CT band to not shift with PCBM concentration. I don&#8217;t see this as that obvious, because one could easily imagine that the polarization that a charge experiences at a polymer-fullerene interface may be different if you have one or two fullerene molecules participating in the complex, especially if they have polar sidechains. Also, what is so peculiar about having a CTE state between polymer and a nanoscale aggregate of PCBM, which could have a modified band structure and thus a shifted CT band?</p>
<p>Now on to your criticisms of the paper I suggested. You say that what lets you dismiss the authors is that Fig. 2 shows PCBM emission in the red. While this is<br />
certainly true, keep in mind that fullerene emission has a very small quantum yield, so to see PCBM emission takes a sizable amount of fullerene. I personally think it&#8217;s very hard to reconcile the intensity of what they assign to CTE emission (relative to the albeit significantly quenched MDMO-PPV PL) with the very low quantum yield of PCBM at the relatively low 20% PCBM weight ratio. </p>
<p>Next comes the question of regiorandom vs. regioregular P3HT CTE emission. If you claim the red emission is due to the in-gap PCBM defect state, then why would the intensity of this emission be so sensisitve to the polymer self-organization? To me, to explain that you have to invoke some interaction between this defect state that you say is intrinsic to PCBM and the polymer. In that case, this rogue state isn&#8217;t as native to the fullerene as you suggest and might itself give rise to new polymer-fullerene CTE-type states. These authors also observe a shift in the &#8220;CTE&#8221; emission that at least goes in the right direction upon going from a PPV to a polythiophene. Again, why would the energy of the defect emission be so sensitive to the polymer if it&#8217;s intrinsic to the fullerene? I will grant you that the authors could have done better in terms of control samples. I would have loved to have seen PL of PCBM in an inert PMMA or polystyrene-type matrix as a function of fullerene loading to isolate the effects of PCBM emission. </p>
<p>Finally, your statement that C60 can be used as a hole-transporting material in conjuction with gold does not necessitate invoking the existance of a mid-gap state. The energy levels that you quote were measured in ultrahigh vacuum conditions, and the penetration depth in those experiments isn&#8217;t that large so the 6.1 eV number measured for the top several layers in contact with vacuum may not at all be representative of the energetics at the buried fullerene-metal interface, with its own charge-transfer processes. Similarly, the workfunction of gold is likely no longer 5 eV when in contact with one or more fullerene layers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[my mistake they did measure PL under vacuum.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my mistake they did measure PL under vacuum.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-106</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The paper you mentioned is not convincing.  I thought I would have had to dig up some old references to show you, but luckily you can already see it in Figure 2(inset). PCBM shows emission down to the NIR (thus proving it also has absorption, yeah!), and the blends show emission down to the NIR, in fact the shape of PCBM emission and the shape of the blend emission are similar.  Why do we need to believe in complicated CT states when we could just say we have selective quenching of the PCBM emission.  The authors of this paper fall back on an APL they published to &#039;prove&#039; that the emission is from CT states based on electric field effects.  The cause of this effect would also seem obvious, belowbandgap emission is a highly forbidden process hence applying a disturbing electric field will effect this emission more than natural HOMO-LUMO transitions.

Further criticism, although I don&#039;t think its relevant to the data. They measured the PL spectra in air. Why didn&#039;t they realise that any defect emission could obscure there desired signal, why test in air?? Also if they are using the lamp, why didn&#039;t they provide us with an excitation spectra for the emission? (preferably for different emission wavelengths as well).

You are right in that the midbandgap states could be coming from the sidechain but actually I see plenty of evidence that C60 also has midbandgap states.  Take for instance that C60 will form an ohmic contact with metal such as gold.  Workfunction of gold is 5.0eV , while the HOMO of C60 is 6.1 eV. Thats a big difference over which to form an ohmic contact unless of course there is a midgap state with which to push electrons into/out of. Plus researchers now in OLED are starting to use C60 as a HOLE injecting material because its so good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The paper you mentioned is not convincing.  I thought I would have had to dig up some old references to show you, but luckily you can already see it in Figure 2(inset). PCBM shows emission down to the NIR (thus proving it also has absorption, yeah!), and the blends show emission down to the NIR, in fact the shape of PCBM emission and the shape of the blend emission are similar.  Why do we need to believe in complicated CT states when we could just say we have selective quenching of the PCBM emission.  The authors of this paper fall back on an APL they published to &#8216;prove&#8217; that the emission is from CT states based on electric field effects.  The cause of this effect would also seem obvious, belowbandgap emission is a highly forbidden process hence applying a disturbing electric field will effect this emission more than natural HOMO-LUMO transitions.</p>
<p>Further criticism, although I don&#8217;t think its relevant to the data. They measured the PL spectra in air. Why didn&#8217;t they realise that any defect emission could obscure there desired signal, why test in air?? Also if they are using the lamp, why didn&#8217;t they provide us with an excitation spectra for the emission? (preferably for different emission wavelengths as well).</p>
<p>You are right in that the midbandgap states could be coming from the sidechain but actually I see plenty of evidence that C60 also has midbandgap states.  Take for instance that C60 will form an ohmic contact with metal such as gold.  Workfunction of gold is 5.0eV , while the HOMO of C60 is 6.1 eV. Thats a big difference over which to form an ohmic contact unless of course there is a midgap state with which to push electrons into/out of. Plus researchers now in OLED are starting to use C60 as a HOLE injecting material because its so good.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just realized that I had the paper saved before final page numbers had been assigned, so here are the correct numbers: 3662-3668. It came out at the end of November.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just realized that I had the paper saved before final page numbers had been assigned, so here are the correct numbers: 3662-3668. It came out at the end of November.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First off, let me say that I appreciate this exchange and the questions that you&#039;ve raised. It&#039;s nice to have one&#039;s conventional understanding challenged on occasion.

Here is another recent paper on CT excitons that after a quick scan I think deibel might have missed (forgive me if I&#039;m wrong): Adv. Funct. Mater. 2009, 19, 1–7. It is all about the emission band that&#039;s red of the emission of the individual components, and it arises only in the blend.  Here, I believe you&#039;d be hard-pressed to argue that the effective interfacial area over which one expects to observe CT exciton states is small. 

Your ideas about defect states being intrinsic to fullerenes are certainly interesting. PCBM has been shown to assume a weakly H-bonded motif through the ester groups when assembled as a monolayer on a (cold!) Cu surface. While this is far from the spin-coated BHJ conditions, it at least suggests that there could be aggregates of PCBM with varying degrees of these sidechain interactions, which could lead to differing degrees of local polarization and thus site energies for the various nanocrystallites. I&#039;ve yet to see anyone take these thoughts any further.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, let me say that I appreciate this exchange and the questions that you&#8217;ve raised. It&#8217;s nice to have one&#8217;s conventional understanding challenged on occasion.</p>
<p>Here is another recent paper on CT excitons that after a quick scan I think deibel might have missed (forgive me if I&#8217;m wrong): Adv. Funct. Mater. 2009, 19, 1–7. It is all about the emission band that&#8217;s red of the emission of the individual components, and it arises only in the blend.  Here, I believe you&#8217;d be hard-pressed to argue that the effective interfacial area over which one expects to observe CT exciton states is small. </p>
<p>Your ideas about defect states being intrinsic to fullerenes are certainly interesting. PCBM has been shown to assume a weakly H-bonded motif through the ester groups when assembled as a monolayer on a (cold!) Cu surface. While this is far from the spin-coated BHJ conditions, it at least suggests that there could be aggregates of PCBM with varying degrees of these sidechain interactions, which could lead to differing degrees of local polarization and thus site energies for the various nanocrystallites. I&#8217;ve yet to see anyone take these thoughts any further.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi glidera,

Yes I think the red-edge to IPCE spectra comes from PCBM. I cant really explain it well here more than I have above, did you have some specific question in mind? If you look in the literature you will see parallels with C60, and there is a lot more data there on c60 than PCBM. The nature of the midbandgap states in fullerene , I have no idea (C60 and PCBM both show the same evidence for midbandgap states). It could be intercalated compounds or gases in the C60 crystal (that add their electrons), it could be intercalated compounds in the bucky ball, it could be C60 polymerised defects, or least likely it could be natural for C60 to have midbandgap states. I want to say that it is somekind of intercalated compounds, because otherwise the energy models for C60 will all be wrong, but I have a horrible sinking feeling that it is natural.    

CT states are fairly common, I agree but we should be careful about the degree of charge transfer. I did not know that CT states were common at organic organic interfaces, how can you eaily measure something which is only one layer thick?

Anyway the evidence I want to see is easy to get.  I would like to see the EL data shown in the papers mentioned above repeated with PL measurements. There should be no difficulty in doing so, under the current given explanation, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi glidera,</p>
<p>Yes I think the red-edge to IPCE spectra comes from PCBM. I cant really explain it well here more than I have above, did you have some specific question in mind? If you look in the literature you will see parallels with C60, and there is a lot more data there on c60 than PCBM. The nature of the midbandgap states in fullerene , I have no idea (C60 and PCBM both show the same evidence for midbandgap states). It could be intercalated compounds or gases in the C60 crystal (that add their electrons), it could be intercalated compounds in the bucky ball, it could be C60 polymerised defects, or least likely it could be natural for C60 to have midbandgap states. I want to say that it is somekind of intercalated compounds, because otherwise the energy models for C60 will all be wrong, but I have a horrible sinking feeling that it is natural.    </p>
<p>CT states are fairly common, I agree but we should be careful about the degree of charge transfer. I did not know that CT states were common at organic organic interfaces, how can you eaily measure something which is only one layer thick?</p>
<p>Anyway the evidence I want to see is easy to get.  I would like to see the EL data shown in the papers mentioned above repeated with PL measurements. There should be no difficulty in doing so, under the current given explanation, right?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 07:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-102</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am from LA, and I did recently publish a paper in JPCC. I am working on a follow-up or two to a lot of the open questions that were left. Would love to hear your thoughts in the meantime. I am definitely not going to blog for similar due to lack of time and desire. Signing up was fully just to be able to post to your blog to be honest. =)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am from LA, and I did recently publish a paper in JPCC. I am working on a follow-up or two to a lot of the open questions that were left. Would love to hear your thoughts in the meantime. I am definitely not going to blog for similar due to lack of time and desire. Signing up was fully just to be able to post to your blog to be honest. =)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi glidera, thanks! Are you from LA? ;-) I think I recently read a JPCC by you... Concerning signing up, does that imply you are also going to blog? ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi glidera, thanks! Are you from LA? <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  I think I recently read a JPCC by you&#8230; Concerning signing up, does that imply you are also going to blog? <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by glidera</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[glidera]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For the lumberjack wanna-be, I respect your skepticism of the evidence for CT states. At the same time, I&#039;d love to see the outline of your arguments that give you the numbers that you&#039;ve quoted. I must say I am surprised how confidently you dismiss the potential importance of CT states given that they are rather ubiquitous in pi-conjugated organic-organic interfaces. I am also curious why you consider PCBM in-gap defect states as more likely precursor states to the onset of photocurrent on the red side of the IPCE spectrum rather than CT excitons. What do you think is the molecular nature of these defect states?

To deibel, I&#039;ve finally signed up for an account, but I&#039;ve been reading your blog that I&#039;d accidentally discovered for some time now. Just wanted to let you know that I&#039;ve really enjoyed your posts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the lumberjack wanna-be, I respect your skepticism of the evidence for CT states. At the same time, I&#8217;d love to see the outline of your arguments that give you the numbers that you&#8217;ve quoted. I must say I am surprised how confidently you dismiss the potential importance of CT states given that they are rather ubiquitous in pi-conjugated organic-organic interfaces. I am also curious why you consider PCBM in-gap defect states as more likely precursor states to the onset of photocurrent on the red side of the IPCE spectrum rather than CT excitons. What do you think is the molecular nature of these defect states?</p>
<p>To deibel, I&#8217;ve finally signed up for an account, but I&#8217;ve been reading your blog that I&#8217;d accidentally discovered for some time now. Just wanted to let you know that I&#8217;ve really enjoyed your posts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-99</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi! Actually, the difference between CT state energy and Voc is due to both, radiative and nonradiative recombination! The way to go for improving Voc is probably indeed reducing the nonradiative part. However, the maximum (theoretically possible) Voc is given by the CT state energy. Clearly, CT determines Voc, and recombination leads to Voc being lower than CT;-) Nevertheless, I&#039;ll have also a strong coffee tomorrow in the morning on your health and our discussions:-) And if you find that ou might become interested in CT again, and can think of complementary experiments between you and me, I&#039;d welcome that! Nice evening (~ GMT ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! Actually, the difference between CT state energy and Voc is due to both, radiative and nonradiative recombination! The way to go for improving Voc is probably indeed reducing the nonradiative part. However, the maximum (theoretically possible) Voc is given by the CT state energy. Clearly, CT determines Voc, and recombination leads to Voc being lower than CT;-) Nevertheless, I&#8217;ll have also a strong coffee tomorrow in the morning on your health and our discussions:-) And if you find that ou might become interested in CT again, and can think of complementary experiments between you and me, I&#8217;d welcome that! Nice evening (~ GMT <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-98</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I will naturally play the part of the sceptic ;-)

I have just read the papers you mentioned. It seems the story to CTC states has changed a little since I remember, or at least for these papers. Now there is no longer need to find CT absorption as now we are more interested in CT emission (Tvingstedt JACS 2008) as CT emission is all that is important and radiative recombination decay is the principal recombination mechanism that controls Voc. 

Or is it actually?  The Nat.Mater paper closes by saying &#039;Therefore to improve Voc, the exact origin of these non-radiative recombination pathways should be investigated.&#039; So in other words , the radiative recombination doesn&#039;t mean much at all as there are other recombination pathways.  So in fact it is likely that
non-radiative recombination controls Voc which in turn controls the CT emission. Not the other way around. 

Even this last part, that Voc controls CT emission is an open question.  Why is the CT emission band higher in energy than the Voc of the device? Assuming some exciton binding for hole and electron, the emission should be at lower energy than that required to push the initial charges into the device (Voc). I believe its true for OLED&#039;s, can&#039;t get blue emission out of a device which has only a 2 eV bias across it!?  Could it be that this CT emission is actually coming out of defects. (e.g photochemically bound polymer and fullerene), hence the higher emission energy than expected and the need for a larger driving force. Defects could be discounted if PL could be seen matching the EL, as then the electrons and hole recombination would be occuring at the same site as photo-induced charge carrier generation.  With just EL we could be looking at voltage driving current to unusual places that are not a D-A junction. Defect emission and Voc could be related because one half of the defect is the polymer and has a changing HOMO.  

I may not be making sense because I just had a cup of strong coffee and I have the jitters but basically I don&#039;t see the significance of these findings. CT absorption is probably from PCBM and weak emission could be from anything. There is a correlation true but it doesn&#039;t tell you what controls what.

Anyway I will be staying well clear of any discussion of CT states in my papers.  I only pray that reviewers leave me in peace to do my work.  My idea with PCBM is interesting but its main focus is not CT states , its why you can&#039;t make a good organic solar cell using a polymer with a HOMO higher than 5.3 eV. This is experimentally validated but nobody knows yet why this is and I think I know. It is purely a thought experiment (there is enough literature evidence) and would be happy to publish it on your blog as an exclusive! Ha ha.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will naturally play the part of the sceptic <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I have just read the papers you mentioned. It seems the story to CTC states has changed a little since I remember, or at least for these papers. Now there is no longer need to find CT absorption as now we are more interested in CT emission (Tvingstedt JACS 2008) as CT emission is all that is important and radiative recombination decay is the principal recombination mechanism that controls Voc. </p>
<p>Or is it actually?  The Nat.Mater paper closes by saying &#8216;Therefore to improve Voc, the exact origin of these non-radiative recombination pathways should be investigated.&#8217; So in other words , the radiative recombination doesn&#8217;t mean much at all as there are other recombination pathways.  So in fact it is likely that<br />
non-radiative recombination controls Voc which in turn controls the CT emission. Not the other way around. </p>
<p>Even this last part, that Voc controls CT emission is an open question.  Why is the CT emission band higher in energy than the Voc of the device? Assuming some exciton binding for hole and electron, the emission should be at lower energy than that required to push the initial charges into the device (Voc). I believe its true for OLED&#8217;s, can&#8217;t get blue emission out of a device which has only a 2 eV bias across it!?  Could it be that this CT emission is actually coming out of defects. (e.g photochemically bound polymer and fullerene), hence the higher emission energy than expected and the need for a larger driving force. Defects could be discounted if PL could be seen matching the EL, as then the electrons and hole recombination would be occuring at the same site as photo-induced charge carrier generation.  With just EL we could be looking at voltage driving current to unusual places that are not a D-A junction. Defect emission and Voc could be related because one half of the defect is the polymer and has a changing HOMO.  </p>
<p>I may not be making sense because I just had a cup of strong coffee and I have the jitters but basically I don&#8217;t see the significance of these findings. CT absorption is probably from PCBM and weak emission could be from anything. There is a correlation true but it doesn&#8217;t tell you what controls what.</p>
<p>Anyway I will be staying well clear of any discussion of CT states in my papers.  I only pray that reviewers leave me in peace to do my work.  My idea with PCBM is interesting but its main focus is not CT states , its why you can&#8217;t make a good organic solar cell using a polymer with a HOMO higher than 5.3 eV. This is experimentally validated but nobody knows yet why this is and I think I know. It is purely a thought experiment (there is enough literature evidence) and would be happy to publish it on your blog as an exclusive! Ha ha.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-97</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll take the other stance;-)

Even from the data shown, if I make a linear superposition of P3HT and PCBM single phase data shown in Fig. 1, and compare it to the blend data, I see that the low energy part in the blend is a new feature. Actually, the results from electroluminescence are similar (Tvingstedt, JACS 2008 and Vandewal, Nature Materials 2009). As a CT state is a hybrid, the donor-acceptor properties have an influence. For instance, the constant dielectric of the blend is increased when raising the PCBM fraction, as PCBM has epsilon of about 4 and P3HT of only 3.5 or so. Thus, changed screening, changed CT binding energy, changed CT energy.

Nevertheless, I hear your criticism loud and clear... Maybe you should finally write a paper about it;-) Most people (indeed, including myself) are pretty convinced of the CT story, at the latest since the above mentioned Nat Mater in which CT EQE, CT emission and injection current to drive the emission are used to predict the open circuit voltage! The latter is based on the Shockley--Queisser detailed balance limit, adapted 2007 by Rau (Phys Rev B). I reckon your controversial view will raise the interest in your paper-to-be;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll take the other stance;-)</p>
<p>Even from the data shown, if I make a linear superposition of P3HT and PCBM single phase data shown in Fig. 1, and compare it to the blend data, I see that the low energy part in the blend is a new feature. Actually, the results from electroluminescence are similar (Tvingstedt, JACS 2008 and Vandewal, Nature Materials 2009). As a CT state is a hybrid, the donor-acceptor properties have an influence. For instance, the constant dielectric of the blend is increased when raising the PCBM fraction, as PCBM has epsilon of about 4 and P3HT of only 3.5 or so. Thus, changed screening, changed CT binding energy, changed CT energy.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I hear your criticism loud and clear&#8230; Maybe you should finally write a paper about it;-) Most people (indeed, including myself) are pretty convinced of the CT story, at the latest since the above mentioned Nat Mater in which CT EQE, CT emission and injection current to drive the emission are used to predict the open circuit voltage! The latter is based on the Shockley&#8211;Queisser detailed balance limit, adapted 2007 by Rau (Phys Rev B). I reckon your controversial view will raise the interest in your paper-to-be;-)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-96</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-96</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just googled the paper you mentioned. I will be critical and say that they show poor evidence for any CT states, even the abstract itself hints at what is most important cause of the observed changes , the PCBM itself. I have particular gripes with Fig.1 in that they cut the EQE spectra for PCBM at 1.6 eV. Why is this given that PCBM has absorption must lower than this? When they have resolution to spare in their measurement down to EQE 10-4 they didnt bother to check see if PCBM continued to give some current?? I am sure if they looked they might have found that PCBM did show current below 1.6 eV possibly complicating their end analysis.

Figure 4 and Figure 5, the tail in EQE down to low wavelengths just seems to correlate to how efficient the device is, with a more efficient device showing higher EQE at long wavelengths, which is not surprising.  Unfortunately they cannot deconvolute absorption out of the EQE directly and so it is very feasible that all blends have the same absorption but that they only see heightened EQE at low wavelengths for the best devices. An equally likely explanation to the one they give is that PCBM is absorbing down to 1 eV in all devices and that how high the EQE gets depends on how good the device is.  

Figure 6 they anneal the films causing PCBM crystallisation heightening its absorption in the region around 1 eV causing the observed change (note the absorption comes from the PCBM aggregate and not the molecule, molecule band gap is fixed at 1.7 eV). 

Figure 7 increasing PCBM content causes more PCBM aggregates but also again, the more efficient device would show greater EQE at the long wavelength region. The explanation for this effect in the paper is particularly weak. How exactly is adding more PCBM meant to shift a CT state energy? A CT state is an interaction between one molecule and the next. Adding a higher concentration of one component should not shift the CT absorption band. If adding more PCBM shifts the PCBM LUMO, then suddenly we have a CT state between one polymer and a PCBM aggregate? 

I have seen similar evidence like this elsewhere also for reports on absorption but the underlying factor in all of this is the PCBM; no-one yet is to show CT state evidence that goes lower than 1 eV beyond the tail of absorption in PCBM, and all this despite the fact that below 1eV is where we all expect the CT absorption to be.  The energy of the CT state in PPV:PCBM should be 0.8eV and P3HT:PCBM at 0.6eV the same as the device voltage (HOMO donor-LUMO acceptor gap) but in this paper they dont even look there which is weird.  

Furthermore they overlook the fact that the CT states could be coming from anything else but PCBM and MDMOPPV.  The CT absorption is only weak, the absorption could be coming from an PPV defect complexing to a PCBM defect, nothing to do with PCBM and polymer at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just googled the paper you mentioned. I will be critical and say that they show poor evidence for any CT states, even the abstract itself hints at what is most important cause of the observed changes , the PCBM itself. I have particular gripes with Fig.1 in that they cut the EQE spectra for PCBM at 1.6 eV. Why is this given that PCBM has absorption must lower than this? When they have resolution to spare in their measurement down to EQE 10-4 they didnt bother to check see if PCBM continued to give some current?? I am sure if they looked they might have found that PCBM did show current below 1.6 eV possibly complicating their end analysis.</p>
<p>Figure 4 and Figure 5, the tail in EQE down to low wavelengths just seems to correlate to how efficient the device is, with a more efficient device showing higher EQE at long wavelengths, which is not surprising.  Unfortunately they cannot deconvolute absorption out of the EQE directly and so it is very feasible that all blends have the same absorption but that they only see heightened EQE at low wavelengths for the best devices. An equally likely explanation to the one they give is that PCBM is absorbing down to 1 eV in all devices and that how high the EQE gets depends on how good the device is.  </p>
<p>Figure 6 they anneal the films causing PCBM crystallisation heightening its absorption in the region around 1 eV causing the observed change (note the absorption comes from the PCBM aggregate and not the molecule, molecule band gap is fixed at 1.7 eV). </p>
<p>Figure 7 increasing PCBM content causes more PCBM aggregates but also again, the more efficient device would show greater EQE at the long wavelength region. The explanation for this effect in the paper is particularly weak. How exactly is adding more PCBM meant to shift a CT state energy? A CT state is an interaction between one molecule and the next. Adding a higher concentration of one component should not shift the CT absorption band. If adding more PCBM shifts the PCBM LUMO, then suddenly we have a CT state between one polymer and a PCBM aggregate? </p>
<p>I have seen similar evidence like this elsewhere also for reports on absorption but the underlying factor in all of this is the PCBM; no-one yet is to show CT state evidence that goes lower than 1 eV beyond the tail of absorption in PCBM, and all this despite the fact that below 1eV is where we all expect the CT absorption to be.  The energy of the CT state in PPV:PCBM should be 0.8eV and P3HT:PCBM at 0.6eV the same as the device voltage (HOMO donor-LUMO acceptor gap) but in this paper they dont even look there which is weird.  </p>
<p>Furthermore they overlook the fact that the CT states could be coming from anything else but PCBM and MDMOPPV.  The CT absorption is only weak, the absorption could be coming from an PPV defect complexing to a PCBM defect, nothing to do with PCBM and polymer at all.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-95</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your thoughts! Hmm, you are right, we come from different directions;-) So let&#039;s meet at the middle. If I consider the data of Vandewal et al. (Adv Funct Mater 2008, DOI:10.1002/adfm.200800056) -- say Fig. 1, it seems to me that MDMO-PPV and PCBM alone do not show any absorption (or photon conversion efficiency, measured by Fourier transform photocurrent spectroscopy) at 1.3eV, whereas the blend shows a distinct additional feature... looks like an additional feature just due to blending, and might very well (i.e., with good reason, I think) be interpreted as ground state CT! Have you seen something similar?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts! Hmm, you are right, we come from different directions;-) So let&#8217;s meet at the middle. If I consider the data of Vandewal et al. (Adv Funct Mater 2008, DOI:10.1002/adfm.200800056) &#8212; say Fig. 1, it seems to me that MDMO-PPV and PCBM alone do not show any absorption (or photon conversion efficiency, measured by Fourier transform photocurrent spectroscopy) at 1.3eV, whereas the blend shows a distinct additional feature&#8230; looks like an additional feature just due to blending, and might very well (i.e., with good reason, I think) be interpreted as ground state CT! Have you seen something similar?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-94</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t quite understand what you mean , probably because we speak slightly different languages. For me, in the absence of any ground state charge transfer interaction there would be negligible to none, subbandgap optical transitions leading to promotion of an electron from the HOMO of one molecule to the LUMO of the next.  I thought this was by definition, a ground state charge transfer complex has some CT absorption, without it , there is no complex. Of course there is varying degrees of charge transfer but still its either a ground state charge transfer complex or not.  

Moving back to the point of why I think there is no CT interaction between , say, PCBM and P3HT, is because, if there was some CT character, then recombination of charges across the PCBM-P3HT heterojunction should give rise to CT emission. We can detect single photons of emission however to my knowledge no one has reported seeing emission from P3HT-PCBM at the expected CT wavelength of around 0.6 eV. If there is no emission (even accounting for non-radiative decay losses) there likewise can be no absorption, as absorption and emission are linked by the Einstein relation. Hence although I cannot rule out any CT absorption (anything is possible with defects etc) I doubt that it plays any significant role in the device operation.

I have seen lots of papers to date on CT states between a polymer and PCBM, however most of these reports have weaknesses.  One common weakness is that it is not well known that PCBM shows absorption down as low as around 1 eV because it has midbandgap states.  As an example, if you look at the IPCE spectra of a P3HT:PCBM device you will see photogenerated current (albeit small) for wavelengths down to around 900 nm. I see it at least a few times a week. That is from absorption in the PCBM. These midbandgap states are very important to the properties of fullerene however I havent had time to write up any of my ideas. 

Anyway sorry for talking your ear off - congratulations on your grants!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t quite understand what you mean , probably because we speak slightly different languages. For me, in the absence of any ground state charge transfer interaction there would be negligible to none, subbandgap optical transitions leading to promotion of an electron from the HOMO of one molecule to the LUMO of the next.  I thought this was by definition, a ground state charge transfer complex has some CT absorption, without it , there is no complex. Of course there is varying degrees of charge transfer but still its either a ground state charge transfer complex or not.  </p>
<p>Moving back to the point of why I think there is no CT interaction between , say, PCBM and P3HT, is because, if there was some CT character, then recombination of charges across the PCBM-P3HT heterojunction should give rise to CT emission. We can detect single photons of emission however to my knowledge no one has reported seeing emission from P3HT-PCBM at the expected CT wavelength of around 0.6 eV. If there is no emission (even accounting for non-radiative decay losses) there likewise can be no absorption, as absorption and emission are linked by the Einstein relation. Hence although I cannot rule out any CT absorption (anything is possible with defects etc) I doubt that it plays any significant role in the device operation.</p>
<p>I have seen lots of papers to date on CT states between a polymer and PCBM, however most of these reports have weaknesses.  One common weakness is that it is not well known that PCBM shows absorption down as low as around 1 eV because it has midbandgap states.  As an example, if you look at the IPCE spectra of a P3HT:PCBM device you will see photogenerated current (albeit small) for wavelengths down to around 900 nm. I see it at least a few times a week. That is from absorption in the PCBM. These midbandgap states are very important to the properties of fullerene however I havent had time to write up any of my ideas. </p>
<p>Anyway sorry for talking your ear off &#8211; congratulations on your grants!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-93</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Only one or two references on ground state charge transfer states;-) It is rather about CT complexes as precursor of free charges, and their role in determining photocurrent as well as open circuit voltage. In any case, there is evidence that the CT state can be occupied nicely by a direct (sub S0-S1 gap) optical transition. I would be interested to hear what evidence you are referring to!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only one or two references on ground state charge transfer states;-) It is rather about CT complexes as precursor of free charges, and their role in determining photocurrent as well as open circuit voltage. In any case, there is evidence that the CT state can be occupied nicely by a direct (sub S0-S1 gap) optical transition. I would be interested to hear what evidence you are referring to!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Science talking vs doing &#8211; and status by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2010/02/08/science-talking-vs-doing-and-status/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=397#comment-92</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hope you are not going to talk about ground state charge transfer states.  There is ample evidence that all those observations could be accounted for in other ways.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope you are not going to talk about ground state charge transfer states.  There is ample evidence that all those observations could be accounted for in other ways.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wolfgang Pauli speaking by Karl Popper Speaking &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/03/16/wolfgang-pauli-speaking/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karl Popper Speaking &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=269#comment-91</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Popper&#160;Speaking  From Wikiquote, after reading Scott Berkun. Not funny (as some of these), but thoughful (who&#8217;d have expected [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Popper&nbsp;Speaking  From Wikiquote, after reading Scott Berkun. Not funny (as some of these), but thoughful (who&#8217;d have expected [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5.9% and more by Funding for Organic Photovoltaics &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/07/08/5-9/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Funding for Organic Photovoltaics &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=311#comment-90</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] this context, Heliatek, a Germany based company developing organic small molecule solar cells with high efficiency, has received 18 Million Euros in a second round of funding from venture capitalists and others. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this context, Heliatek, a Germany based company developing organic small molecule solar cells with high efficiency, has received 18 Million Euros in a second round of funding from venture capitalists and others. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ten Simple Rules&#8230; by How to publish&#8230; seriously &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/07/07/ten-simple-rules/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[How to publish&#8230; seriously &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 09:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=305#comment-89</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] I linked to some PLOS editorials about Ten simple rules for nearly everything, including writing [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I linked to some PLOS editorials about Ten simple rules for nearly everything, including writing [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on How to Publish a Scientific Comment&#8230; by How to publish&#8230; seriously &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/08/20/how-to-publish-a-scientific-comment/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[How to publish&#8230; seriously &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 09:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=339#comment-88</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to publish&#8230;&#160;seriously  Less sad than the recent Note on publishing a scientific comment&#8230; As I am in a constant process of trying to understand the requirements for publishing [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to publish&#8230;&nbsp;seriously  Less sad than the recent Note on publishing a scientific comment&#8230; As I am in a constant process of trying to understand the requirements for publishing [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-86</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi rlunt, thanks for your comment! As you see, I wrote a blog post as comment to your question, which also serves as an update/extension to the post here: http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/08/26/influence-of-finite-surface-on-efficiency-vs-mobility-of-polymer-solar-cells/ . Somewhat circuitous way of &quot;answering&quot; your question, sorry ;-) Concerning the paper you cited, I think a different effect is looked at there, efficiency vs grain size. Large grain size means less losses due to the grain boundary, with the efficiency saturating at the &quot;normal&quot; bulk mobility.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi rlunt, thanks for your comment! As you see, I wrote a blog post as comment to your question, which also serves as an update/extension to the post here: <a href="http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/08/26/influence-of-finite-surface-on-efficiency-vs-mobility-of-polymer-solar-cells/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/08/26/influence-of-finite-surface-on-efficiency-vs-mobility-of-polymer-solar-cells/</a> . Somewhat circuitous way of &#8220;answering&#8221; your question, sorry <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Concerning the paper you cited, I think a different effect is looked at there, efficiency vs grain size. Large grain size means less losses due to the grain boundary, with the efficiency saturating at the &#8220;normal&#8221; bulk mobility.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by Influence of Finite Surface on Efficiency vs. Mobility of Polymer Solar Cells &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Influence of Finite Surface on Efficiency vs. Mobility of Polymer Solar Cells &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-85</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of Finite Surface on Efficiency vs. Mobility of Polymer Solar&#160;Cells  Just a quick addition to Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells. You might remember that with increasing mobility, the  open circuit voltage Voc, however, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Finite Surface on Efficiency vs. Mobility of Polymer Solar&nbsp;Cells  Just a quick addition to Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells. You might remember that with increasing mobility, the  open circuit voltage Voc, however, [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by rlunt</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rlunt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-84</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can you explain why this phenomenon of reduced quasi-fermi level splitting with increased mobility is not seen with inorganic PVs? (see for example Sen, Srivastava, Joshi, and Goyal, Performance of Polycrystalline Solar Cells, Phys. Stat. Sol. A 75, 657, 1983.)

Thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you explain why this phenomenon of reduced quasi-fermi level splitting with increased mobility is not seen with inorganic PVs? (see for example Sen, Srivastava, Joshi, and Goyal, Performance of Polycrystalline Solar Cells, Phys. Stat. Sol. A 75, 657, 1983.)</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>Comment on Picture Story &#8211; How Do Organic Solar Cells Function? by Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 1 &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/06/05/picture-story-how-do-organic-solar-cells-function/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 1 &#171; Notes on Disordered Matter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-83</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] in organic solar cells &#8211; Part&#160;1  In at least two previous posts (Picture Story and How do organic solar cells function &#8211; Part 1), I highlighted the field dependence of the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in organic solar cells &#8211; Part&nbsp;1  In at least two previous posts (Picture Story and How do organic solar cells function &ndash; Part 1), I highlighted the field dependence of the [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 1 by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/07/20/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-1/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-81</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That sounds like very interesting work, looking forward to see it! A colleague told me that the current P3HTs from BASF can have conjugation lengths of 20 or more. What also might influence your large delocalisation range is the interchain delocalisation in the P3HT lamellae reported by Sirringhaus et al, Nature 401, 685 (1999). We did not consider interchain delocalisation in our simulation, it would further improve the polaron pair dissociation yield, also resulting in an even weaker field dependence. However, maybe not quite -- but almost -- unity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That sounds like very interesting work, looking forward to see it! A colleague told me that the current P3HTs from BASF can have conjugation lengths of 20 or more. What also might influence your large delocalisation range is the interchain delocalisation in the P3HT lamellae reported by Sirringhaus et al, Nature 401, 685 (1999). We did not consider interchain delocalisation in our simulation, it would further improve the polaron pair dissociation yield, also resulting in an even weaker field dependence. However, maybe not quite &#8212; but almost &#8212; unity.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Photocurrent in organic solar cells &#8211; Part 1 by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/07/20/photocurrent-in-organic-solar-cells-part-1/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-80</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah absolutely, I agree with what you say above.  I haven&#039;t published the data yet but some of my experiments suggest the delocalisation area of the polaron cation in P3HT is around 30 nm in diameter (assuming a sphere shape to the polaron). This is pretty big and like you say could explain the weak coulombic interaction between hole and electron. I think local dielectric constant may play a role as well but not sure. From my point of view an electric field is not necessary to get near unity free electrical charge carrier generation in P3HT:PCBM.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah absolutely, I agree with what you say above.  I haven&#8217;t published the data yet but some of my experiments suggest the delocalisation area of the polaron cation in P3HT is around 30 nm in diameter (assuming a sphere shape to the polaron). This is pretty big and like you say could explain the weak coulombic interaction between hole and electron. I think local dielectric constant may play a role as well but not sure. From my point of view an electric field is not necessary to get near unity free electrical charge carrier generation in P3HT:PCBM.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Personal news: married again&#8230; by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/07/13/personal-news-married-again/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=316#comment-78</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks (again! :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks (again! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Personal news: married again&#8230; by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/07/13/personal-news-married-again/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=316#comment-77</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulations (again!).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations (again!).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Optimisation Routes for Organic Solar Cells &#8211; Absorption by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/11/optimisation-routes-for-organic-solar-cells-absorption/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-72</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For me another big trade-off is wanting a lower bandgap material to increase light absorption while still having a material which self organises into a (semi) crystalline state which obviously helps with charge transport.  For me, a donor-acceptor type polymer will give you a lower bandgap (e.g. &lt; 1 eV) but I doubt if such a polymer will ever be strongly crystalline. On the other hand I think I read somewhere that a more homogeneous polymer which could have strong crystallising ability will never have a band-gap below 1.5 eV. I forget the reference but I have it somewhere on my desk. For me again the choice between the two is clear. Charge transport at this time is much more critical than light absorption and so we need to develop a homopolymer with a bandgap as close to 1.5 eV as possible (and of course has good charge transport).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me another big trade-off is wanting a lower bandgap material to increase light absorption while still having a material which self organises into a (semi) crystalline state which obviously helps with charge transport.  For me, a donor-acceptor type polymer will give you a lower bandgap (e.g. &lt; 1 eV) but I doubt if such a polymer will ever be strongly crystalline. On the other hand I think I read somewhere that a more homogeneous polymer which could have strong crystallising ability will never have a band-gap below 1.5 eV. I forget the reference but I have it somewhere on my desk. For me again the choice between the two is clear. Charge transport at this time is much more critical than light absorption and so we need to develop a homopolymer with a bandgap as close to 1.5 eV as possible (and of course has good charge transport).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 20:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-71</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your comment. All images are self-made, of course:-) I&#039;ll email you a pdf. If you use them, I&#039;d be grateful for a citation. Regards, Carsten]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment. All images are self-made, of course:-) I&#8217;ll email you a pdf. If you use them, I&#8217;d be grateful for a citation. Regards, Carsten</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intermediate: Current-Voltage Characteristics of Organic Solar Cells by Aric</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/03/05/intermediate-current-voltage-characeristics-of-organic-solar-cells/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 20:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-70</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the graphics for the I-V curves you used. Did you make them yourself or do you know where you found them. Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the graphics for the I-V curves you used. Did you make them yourself or do you know where you found them. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recombination in low mobility semiconductors: Langevin theory by Pedro</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2008/04/04/recombination-in-low-mobility-semiconductors-langevin-theory/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pedro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=54#comment-50</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clear!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clear!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Papers for iPhone&#8230; soon by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/02/17/papers-for-iphone-soon/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=241#comment-48</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does Papers do anything that Endnote does&#039;nt do? Regardless anything that makes an iphone part of my work brings it one step closer to me getting one from budget expenses.Hooray.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does Papers do anything that Endnote does&#8217;nt do? Regardless anything that makes an iphone part of my work brings it one step closer to me getting one from budget expenses.Hooray.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New blog on organic and hybrid photovoltaics by Juan Bisquert</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/02/10/new-blog-on-organic-and-hybrid-photovoltaics/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Juan Bisquert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=189#comment-42</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carsten, thank you for the quote. Nano-organic photovoltaics is raising a lot of interest, so I feel it is important to extend the discussion not just within the academic world. You have written many interesting things here in your blog, so I see you saved me a lot of work. Congratulations, and good luck with the polarons, they are very elusive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carsten, thank you for the quote. Nano-organic photovoltaics is raising a lot of interest, so I feel it is important to extend the discussion not just within the academic world. You have written many interesting things here in your blog, so I see you saved me a lot of work. Congratulations, and good luck with the polarons, they are very elusive.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-40</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Much appreciated:-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much appreciated:-)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-39</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the reply. Don&#039;t know if I understand the voltage dropping to zero thing but I should brush up on my equations. 

If you are interested I did my thesis on charge recombination in polymer-fullerene solar cells monitored using pump -probe transient absorption spectroscopy.  The data is unpublished as of yet but you are welcome to look at it. 

http://www.lulu.com/content/375725 
(download is free)

Skip straight to chapter 3 on recombination in P3HT:PCBM. Not sure the other chapters will interest you  much however. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply. Don&#8217;t know if I understand the voltage dropping to zero thing but I should brush up on my equations. </p>
<p>If you are interested I did my thesis on charge recombination in polymer-fullerene solar cells monitored using pump -probe transient absorption spectroscopy.  The data is unpublished as of yet but you are welcome to look at it. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.lulu.com/content/375725" rel="nofollow">http://www.lulu.com/content/375725</a><br />
(download is free)</p>
<p>Skip straight to chapter 3 on recombination in P3HT:PCBM. Not sure the other chapters will interest you  much however. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by deibel</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deibel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-37</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack: Thanks for the &quot;favourite read&quot; and the comment:-)

Voc drops with higher mobility, as the charge extraction becomes more and more efficient. This means that in steady state, e.g., holes at the cathode have very low concentrations, but high concentrations at the anode (which is hole injecting). This steep gradient concentration translates into a strongly bent band due to the Poisson equation. In a steep band, however, the quasi-Fermi levels cannot be splitted very far (see Fig. 4(c) in [Deibel 2008a]). Therefore, the higher the mobility, the lower the Voc. However, as mentioned in the post already, this was calculated for ideal charge extraction. The Voc will decrease less (but still will decrease) when the extraction is more realistic.

Very brief (and incomplete;-) explanation for why the fill factor peaks: for the extreme cases, low mobility and high mobility, respectively, you have either zero voltage or zero current. Both mean zero fill factor. The maximum is inbetween.

Thickness: higher thickness means higher absorption (mor excitons) and lower internal field (less polaron pair dissociation). This means that there is an optimum thickness... which is a trade-off once again;-) This does change some values, but not the general behaviour of efficiency vs mobility.

Concerning polaron recombination, indeed mobility alone does not determine it in a two-phase system. However, there is no single model to explain the experimental recombination rates right now. We use a prefactor (zeta) which &quot;manually&quot;, but in accordance with experiment, reduces the Langevin recombination rate. Part of zeta&#039;s origin might be due to the D-A interface. Another part certainly is energetic (and spatial) disorder: Langevin just considered a continuum, no hopping system. This or that way, our macroscopic model considers a blend as a single effective, ambipolar material, with a linear correction for the Langevin recombination.

If you have more information on recombination, I&#039;d be glad to hear it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack: Thanks for the &#8220;favourite read&#8221; and the comment:-)</p>
<p>Voc drops with higher mobility, as the charge extraction becomes more and more efficient. This means that in steady state, e.g., holes at the cathode have very low concentrations, but high concentrations at the anode (which is hole injecting). This steep gradient concentration translates into a strongly bent band due to the Poisson equation. In a steep band, however, the quasi-Fermi levels cannot be splitted very far (see Fig. 4(c) in [Deibel 2008a]). Therefore, the higher the mobility, the lower the Voc. However, as mentioned in the post already, this was calculated for ideal charge extraction. The Voc will decrease less (but still will decrease) when the extraction is more realistic.</p>
<p>Very brief (and incomplete;-) explanation for why the fill factor peaks: for the extreme cases, low mobility and high mobility, respectively, you have either zero voltage or zero current. Both mean zero fill factor. The maximum is inbetween.</p>
<p>Thickness: higher thickness means higher absorption (mor excitons) and lower internal field (less polaron pair dissociation). This means that there is an optimum thickness&#8230; which is a trade-off once again;-) This does change some values, but not the general behaviour of efficiency vs mobility.</p>
<p>Concerning polaron recombination, indeed mobility alone does not determine it in a two-phase system. However, there is no single model to explain the experimental recombination rates right now. We use a prefactor (zeta) which &#8220;manually&#8221;, but in accordance with experiment, reduces the Langevin recombination rate. Part of zeta&#8217;s origin might be due to the D-A interface. Another part certainly is energetic (and spatial) disorder: Langevin just considered a continuum, no hopping system. This or that way, our macroscopic model considers a blend as a single effective, ambipolar material, with a linear correction for the Langevin recombination.</p>
<p>If you have more information on recombination, I&#8217;d be glad to hear it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mobility and Efficiency of Polymer Solar Cells by ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack</title>
		<link>http://blog.disorderedmatter.eu/2009/01/31/mobility-and-efficiency-of-polymer-solar-cells/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ineverwantedtobeascientistiwantedtobealumberjack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 04:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deibel.wordpress.com/?p=169#comment-36</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[some scientific questions if that&#039;s ok.  Why does Voc drop with increasing mobility, is it to do with dark current losses?

Why does the fill factor peak?

How does this change with thickness? You know if devices could be thicker then a lot more light could be absorbed. 

Personally I have seen evidence that charge recombination is not mobility controlled but instead D-A interface surface area limited.  Does your model account for that possibility?  

Thanks for the blog, I never thought such a blog could exist and now its my favourite read. ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some scientific questions if that&#8217;s ok.  Why does Voc drop with increasing mobility, is it to do with dark current losses?</p>
<p>Why does the fill factor peak?</p>
<p>How does this change with thickness? You know if devices could be thicker then a lot more light could be absorbed. </p>
<p>Personally I have seen evidence that charge recombination is not mobility controlled but instead D-A interface surface area limited.  Does your model account for that possibility?  </p>
<p>Thanks for the blog, I never thought such a blog could exist and now its my favourite read. <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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